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Post by irina13 on Nov 6, 2014 14:11:25 GMT
Okkey,hope the subject is good,it is my first time creating a thread .Anyways i put wood chips in my pigs cages and i was wondering can i put newspapers underneath ? I googled this but some say it is bad some say it is good.Im torned , any advice ? I've god one piggy sick with bronhitis i don't want the other ones getting sick as well.
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Post by Bean on Nov 6, 2014 20:05:31 GMT
I've not heard of newspaper giving pigs any problems? Only that most people don't find it absorbant/ odour controlling enough on its own. Before I moved to fleece, I always used a good layer of newspaper under whatever bedding I used, so I could just roll it up on cleaning day - much easier and tidier than scooping it all out. Just make sure you take out any staples etc and just use black and white paper, no glossy supplements.
What sort of wood chips do you use? Pine and cedar are knows to exacerbate respiratory problems in pigs. Pine is a funny one as loads of people use it without an issue but some people feel very strongly it shouldn't be used. The shavings do tend to be a bit dusty - not sure what chips are?
And yes, the title is fine!
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Post by irina13 on Nov 7, 2014 7:05:55 GMT
Well newspaper have lead and that is why i asked.I could lay out a layer of plain white paper.Well it just says wood chips( ihave been using them almost 8 years ) does it have to point out that is cedar or pine ?
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Post by Bean on Nov 7, 2014 9:02:51 GMT
It's always said which wood it is on the ones I've bought/ seen. Could you take a picture of the bag? Maybe someone will recognise it.
It's my understanding, that in the UK at least, the black dye used in printing newspapers is vegetable based. I just had a little google of the subject as you got me interested, and it says that although heavy metals did used to be used in printing, they no longer are. So the newspaper is fine to use as bedding!
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Post by 3piggles on Nov 7, 2014 15:05:08 GMT
Are you thinking of changing bedding from wood chips to newspaper? Newspaper is useless as a bedding. It soaks through and falls apart. The ink dyes the cage bottom, and I never found anything that would get out the dye stains. A former member who subscribed to several papers, so had lots, tried shredding the newspapers for bedding. He said it only lasted a couple of days before needing to be changed. Also, newspaper doesn't control odors at all, and the dye that stains the cage floor also gets on the pigs. No good reasons to use ut. Lots of good reasons not to I understand Treens questions about the wood chips. Wood bedding is usually sold as pellets or as shavings. As shavings, only buy Aspen that says Kiln Dried, on the bag. The pine pellet bedding has to be covered by something like fleece, towels, etc that will pad the sharp edges. I've never seen wood chips offered as bedding, but if they haven't been kiln dried, the aromatic oils in the wood can't cause major respiratory problems for the pigs. I'm curious to see the picture. I Googled wood chip bedding, but found nothing? Yes, cedar is the worst for respiratory problems, so totally avoid cedar.
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Post by Bean on Nov 8, 2014 8:19:19 GMT
I think Irina was just talking about using newspaper under the other bedding.
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Post by irina13 on Nov 8, 2014 20:12:14 GMT
Just using it under the other bedding.I used it the other day,will take a picure when i buy it.I look throught the wholeeee thing anddd nothingg :S.I haven't seen a package of wood chip that said cedar or pinee here where i live (Macedonia).
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Post by Bean on Nov 9, 2014 20:13:29 GMT
If it's a local product then the packing might not mean anything to us, but if you take a photo of the bag and also some of the bedding, we might be able to help!
Hope the paper under the bedding helps makes cage cleaning easier for you!
I don't know much about Macedonia - apart from you have my favourite European flag and the capital is Skopje (which I can pronounce properly - I think, anyway!).
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Post by irina13 on Nov 10, 2014 11:39:13 GMT
Realyy? Im glad to hear that you made me smile i needed that ,just got back from the vet and she still has to take 2 shots every day its like her 18th .don't use wood chips anymore,instead i use a blanket ,just in case is the bedding.I realy don't understand she got sick I noticed araund 20 September she is better but stilll like she has a stuffy nose ,its on and off .I asked her for baytrill the vett said she dosent have the weight to give it to her . Im like crazy serching for things to give to her ...
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Post by 3piggles on Nov 10, 2014 12:36:49 GMT
Aw I'm sorry she's having such a hard time. It could be the wood chip bedding, if it has a lot of the oils still in it. If it has been dried, and there are small pieces, it could be the dust that's getting in her respiratory system. The blanket is a goid option to try. Remember to use a detergent with no smell added, or to rinse the blanket with vinegar until the detergent smell is gone. It might take a few rinses, if the detergent has a lit of perfume added. Also, wash a shirt or robe the same way, for when you hold her. Piggy noses are very close to whatever they are on, and perfumes humans use are as damaging as the natural scents in wood bedding. Also, consider getting a plant mister, not a spray bottle, and misting the hay lightly. Pigs do get allergies to pollens and dust. If she's underweight, I would switch to a mix of hay and alfalfa, giving her alfalfa pellets. Good luck.
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Post by Bean on Nov 10, 2014 12:58:05 GMT
I'm sorry, I just realised I missed the part about you having a poorly piggy - really sorry to hear that, it sounds like it's been going on a while, you must be really worried. I agree having her bedded on blankets/fleece is a good way to make sure it's not related to the bedding or dust. What's in the shots your vet is giving? I wasn't sure if she just didn't want to give Baytril orally, although I've not heard of a pig not being given it due to their weight before. When she sounds stuffy, is the noise just in her nose or can you (or the vet) hear it down in her lungs? You may find it useful to read through SiLamb's thread on one of her boys, Weasley, who had a persistent respiratory symptoms. It turned out to be related to a food intolerance, but you may find some tips on how to relieve the symptoms if they're bothering her. Keep us posted and really hope you see some improvement soon.
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Post by irina13 on Nov 10, 2014 14:06:30 GMT
Well i asked her like 100 times ( the vet i mean )and she says dosen't have the weight ...i don't know realy she was 590 than down to 530 now she is like 500.
Today she listened to her heart and it was ok ,she snuggles a lot (but that is my faul i spoilt her a little ,i hold her as much as i can) when i hold a cucamber she runs to get it,when i touch her get or annoy her she bits me( by that i mean she is not letargic )
Well when you hold her left right nose ''hole''( i don't know the name for it,i don't know if you understand) you don't hear anyting in the lungs exept for heavy breading because on the left she is breathingg normaly.She is giving ger cirprofloxacin + prednizolon and it seems to help( and then at night she starts breading like that again ,moring she is ok than around 10 she starts and so on and on).This last week she was ok exept for an ocasional re laps for a minute or two. ahh sorry for the long post i m so frustrated .
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Post by Bean on Nov 10, 2014 20:34:52 GMT
There's a really good medical forum at Guinea Lynx, we don't have one here - I'd suggest you post there with details of the symptoms, how long it's being going on and what drugs have been prescribed. Also what you've done in terms of changing bedding etc. I really hope someone there is able to help you and advise on whether the meds she's on (antibiotics and a steroid) are the best for her symptoms. I hope you will still keep us updated and I'm sure you'll get some good advice here too, but there are more members with in depth medical knowledge over there so I'm hoping you can get some good advice. It sounds so frustrating and you must be desperate to see an improvement. I've had a pig with a serious URI and you could hear it deep in his lungs like a crackling - it didn't come and go, it just got worse until the meds (thankfully) cured him. With your pig having long times of being okay and the breathing noises sopping when you cover one nostril (nose hole) I really hope it does indicate some local irritation rather than anything more serious. Try the vicks vapour steam thing if you can and see if it provides any relief. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Post by 3piggles on Nov 11, 2014 0:16:55 GMT
I totally second trying the menthol in the air. The good mornings and bad evenings, and her wanting to move around and eat do sound more like allergies than a URI. Does she have goopy discharge from her nose, or goopy, crusty eyes?
You definitely want to get her weight above 600 grams. The higher the better. Try to keep it there. Most vets won't do surgery on pigs weighing less than 600 grams, and that's still low. Some meds may not come in doses for pigs weighing much less. Maybe that's why the weight concerns. Definitely remove all the dust and pollen you can, and try the Vicks.
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Post by irina13 on Nov 11, 2014 7:57:17 GMT
Noooooo ,nothing eyes are good no discharge from nose (at the beginning her eyes were watery and crusty,but now no). I know about that forum,I'm trying to ask as much people as I can. The vet said also to boil water and add pinch of salt and "wash"her nose,gonna try the vapor. Thank you a lot for the suggestions. Need the support
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Post by Bean on Nov 11, 2014 9:52:20 GMT
Her weight does sound low, but it's also worth keeping in mind that at age 8, she would probably be losing some body weight naturally with loss of muscle tone etc. So although you certainly wouldn't ignore symptoms putting them down to her age, it's possible she won't get back up to her usual weight.
When my dental pig lost a lot of weight, I did give him a small spoonful of oats each day for a few weeks to help him put on weight as he lost so much - it worked, but I know some people don't like pigs having oats at all. However, the usual reason is because they're high energy and can make them put on weight - in moderation they would be highly unlikely to cause any other problems.
That's good her eyes and nose are clear. How long does the vet want to keep her on the medication for? Or is it just until all her symptoms have gone?
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Post by irina13 on Nov 11, 2014 10:20:32 GMT
Yes ,i though about that ,i will give her oats it woun't do any harm.Oats for people ? put them i warm water and then feed it to her or just lay them out for her ? I just went to see her,breathing is normal you can hear her breathing very very little,i have no comment,well she is confused the deal was untill last sunday,but when we heard her starting up again back to the vet .Like i said since 20th of september-better than worse,better -worse,now it seems slowly getting better,ugh i don't know. By the way i though i wrote this ,why is Skopje your favoure flag ? Have you ever been here ? I live in Skopje
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Post by 3piggles on Nov 11, 2014 16:47:10 GMT
I hope the oats and mentholatum work I've never fed oats, so can't help with that question.
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Post by Bean on Nov 11, 2014 19:37:12 GMT
Nope, I've never been to Macedonia - would love to one day though. Maybe when fella and I retire we can winnebago it around Europe! The kids have a game called flags of the world and we're all trying to learn the flags and capitals of all the European countries. I know pretty much all the capitals (and checked my pronunciation of a few including Skopje!) but am hopeless with flags, I just forget them and constantly get similar flags mixed up. But whenever one of the kids is testing me and they pull out the Macedonia flag, they know I'll get it - it's just such a bright, colourful image, I really love it! I understand it's changed a few times since Macedonia became an independent country from the former Yugoslavia. I feel I should know more about the history of its separation from Yugoslavia really. I remember having a penfriend in Yugoslavia during when there was lots of fighting and he used to tell me about his experience of the disputes which was so alien to me living in England where nothing like that was going on. He lived in what is now Croatia. Yes, for the underweight pigs, just regular rolled oats that you'd buy to make porridge or flapjacks (unless you're in the US and flapjacks are something altogether different, but let's not complicate things!). I'd just sprinkle them dry on the pellets rather than soaking them. I think if you mixed it with water, the mix would need to be removed if it hadn't been eaten after an hour or so or it would probably go a bit horrible! Good luck, fingers are crossed for your piggy here.
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Post by irina13 on Nov 11, 2014 20:26:56 GMT
A big thank you to all,helped me a lot. Surprisingly she loved the oats. Well whenever you plan to go here I will gladly give you information . England is gorgeous ,learnd about the history at uni, had two books one about the history,one about the politics and well there is Doctor who hahaha
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