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Post by Matt S. on Jan 14, 2015 21:18:21 GMT
Hi all, I just wanted to consult the wisdom of the community, in order to understand if I'm on the "happy path", or need to be concerned. We have two female piggies: Miley and Hayley. Miley is around 10 months old, and Hayley is around 5 months old. Hayley has been with us for about 7 weeks. We introduced Hayley per reading I had done: gradually, first in separate-but-adjacent pens, then on neutral territory, then after a thorough pen-cleaning, into the "main" pen. Immediate results were stellar: both were ecstatic to have a playmate - lots of happy noises, playing, and popcorning. They were inseparable, sleeping together and Hayley basically being Miley's shadow most of the time. We have two pigloos, both of which are big enough for both piggies, and they use both, but most of the time were together in one or the other pigloo. Their pen (2x4) is on a table right at shoulder level when I'm sitting at my desk, and they are my little office-mates, so I see pretty much everything that goes on most of the time. I witnessed not the slightest bit of aggression. This "honeymoon bliss" went on for over a month, and I was thinking "how wonderful" Just the last week or so, there's been a slight change. For the first time, I saw Miley do some "rumble strutting". This started out pretty isolated (few and far between) and "mild", and then increased somewhat in frequency. I notice they are spending a bit more time in separate pigloos, and every once in a while, Miley will "discourage" Hayley from entering a pigloo with her. This is never anything very aggressive, and also not "sustained" - just a quick "lunge". I can't tell if Miley is actually nipping Hayley a bit, or just "bumping" her ... Hayley usually either skitters away or emits a quick "squeak" (not nearly a "squeal"). Alot of times, despite the "discouragement", Hayley still slips in behind Miley into the pigloo, and then they both seem fine in there together. I'm mostly concerned about Hayley - she's so young, and seems to want more contact with Miley than Miley is happy with, and Miley seems to be getting a bit grumpy about it. Of course, I'm not completely sure my interpretation is accurate, either It all seems relatively "mild" (i.e. not a problem with any real severity), but I wanted to make sure its within "expected", or if I should be focusing more attention on something. I'm also interested in theories as to the reasons/causes. Here's a video of them:
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Post by 3piggles on Jan 14, 2015 22:12:11 GMT
Hello and welcome Have you checked their sex to make sure both really are girls? It's just a precaution, so you know you really are dealing with two females, and not one very young male, and one pregnant female. Do they get floor time? That is time to just run and popcorn and explore and be piggies, and it should be at least an hour, twice a day. Think of yourself and a roommate you didn't chose, in a room that fit two beds, two dressers and a mini fridge, and you can't get out. No privacy, exercise or even a challenge. Some four walls and roommate, endlessly. That's what they've got. Floor time lets them explore on their own or together, lets them work off their excess energies and get away from each other. We all need that If you check our Wheekerpedia section, there is a housing thread showing members cages. I think I have a picture of my Piggy Paradise cage in there, and it shows the 10' tube run I added to give the boys running space inside their cage. They still got floor time, but they would go into the tube and run laps, and they loved it. I think your girls just need space to get away from each other, express themselves and work off some energy. Good luck!
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Post by Bean on Jan 15, 2015 10:07:49 GMT
Hello and a warm welcome to Wheekers! Sounds like you've done a great job with the intros, and there's certainly nothing in what you've said that indicates a problem to me (although good point about checking the sex!). It all just sounds rather normal for pigs who are relatively new companions and also both in the process of growing up. Hopefully once Miley is confident her dominance has been accepted, she'll back off a bit (at least for a while - if Hayley tries to make a bid to be top pig, it could get a lot more dramatic - but still be totally fine!). This page on Cavy Spirit has a good list of okay, slightly worrying and problematic behaviours that you might find useful sometime. It's so easy to feel awful for the poor pig who's trying to interact nicely and being chased away, but it's important to remember this is just how they do things, so Hayley isn't necessarily getting a rough deal. As long as she's getting access to food and drink when she needs it and generally seems happy and relaxed, my guess is she's just fine. The fact they choose to cuddle up together is a good sign. I had one little girl used to make the most heartbreaking squeals every time another pig so much as looked at her the wrong way when she joined the herd - I checked her so many times for injuries as I couldn't believe she could make that much racket without anything going on! Things settled down and she became great pals with everyone - she was always a bit dramatic though! I have two boys - brothers. They're about 18 months now and so their hormones have been raging in tandem which has led to a few mighty squabbles. We've got pretty close to the signs that they need to be separated at times, but they're generally good pals. Keeping them busy with things to chew and explore helps distract them when they're having an off day. Just watched the video - beautiful ladies!
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Post by jolovespiggies on Jan 15, 2015 19:11:58 GMT
A very warm welcome love to you and your piggies.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by Matt S. on Jan 22, 2015 21:21:54 GMT
Thanks for the wonderful responses - I'm definitely going to work on providing more floor-time, as I'm a bit behind in that area. I also took a second look, and Hayley does seem to be a female, as best as I can tell, with what I can figure out from my internet reading. Update: the rumble-strutting has pretty much disappeared, so I guess it was just "getting to know each other". Hayley's confidence and "nice playfulness" has really come a long ways, and I think this is also helping - they just seem to be really happy together Some interesting anecdotes: Hayley has joined in with Miley in wheeking for treats, and eats from my hand now (Miley has done this for a long time). I also saw something that surprised me - Miley took a treat from me, ran over immediately to drop it in front of Hayley, and then came back wheeking for another one ! SO smart and cute
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Post by 3piggles on Jan 22, 2015 21:42:54 GMT
Sounds like excellent progress I'm sure the girls will appreciate any extra play space they get, and piggies are great fun to watch when they play
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Post by jolovespiggies on Jan 23, 2015 17:51:23 GMT
I love in when one is in a cave or cuddle cup and the other tries to join in and is sent away wheeking, my two do this all the time it is so cute.
Hugs JO xx
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Post by margaret6 on Jan 25, 2015 15:57:37 GMT
Hi everyone, I think I must have been so lucky with my piggies. I started with two and now have 9 as most of you know. Each time, I brought one or two into the house to meet the newbies and then I had no option but to put the new one in with the rest. The first 2-3 days the new ones would hide and have to put up with being pushed or nudged away. I kept a close eye and can honestly say that after about 7 -10 days, they all fitted in nicely. They are in the shed with a heater on day and night, lovely and cosy. They have 2 large wall hutches for night and a large floor run for during the day. The variations of sleeping and cuddling during the day amazes me. I had a panic this morning though. I have 6 piggies in a large L shaped hutch and three babies that were rescued together in a smaller hutch at night. My husband put them 'to bed' last night and put another pig in with the three youngsters. I took the 5 out first and thought I had lost wee sweet pea...what a panic! X
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Post by jolovespiggies on Jan 25, 2015 17:52:07 GMT
Your heart goes in your mouth doesn't it love, I am so glad she was safe and sound? It sounds lovely Margaret hun, I think I will move in with them LOLL!!
Hugs JO xx
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Post by 3piggles on Jan 26, 2015 12:10:52 GMT
Oh, no! I've had that panic before, too. Awful feeling, but such a relief to find them all safe and sound I think given enough space, and the right space (lots of different options) the all find their niches, have plenty of option to be together or apart, and it will generally work. Not always. My Mr. Grisham used to attack Zippy relentlessly, mostly hiding and jumping out at him. Mia tossed Momo out of the cage, after Momo pursued Mia, nose to tail, biting her and pulling out large chunks, no matter how often or long I separated her. She's in her own condo, now, and quite happy. Otherwise, I've had some great piggy match ups, and a lot of happy piggies.
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Post by Matt S. on Jan 26, 2015 15:44:47 GMT
Wow, 3piggies - sounds like you've had some rambunctious little piggies I'm trying to imagine a piggy tossing another out of the cage ... haha - pretty wild
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Post by jolovespiggies on Jan 26, 2015 18:15:32 GMT
As with bunnies, it is quite alarming when they really get going and are fighting.
Hugs JO xx
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Post by 3piggles on Jan 27, 2015 22:19:20 GMT
Matt S., she totally asked for it It wasn't a long way down, and she landed on padded carpeting. Still, the look on her face was priceless, as was the look on Mia's face. I called Mia Badass Boss Pig, and now she won't answer to anything else I had tried reintroducing Momo to the others, 3 times before, and each time it lasted for a while, then went totally haywire. This time Mia had had enough. I thought about getting Momo another friend, but I think she's a loner. They were part of a huge group of guinea pigs seized from a hoarder, so I figure she has emotional baggage she can't overcome. I would love to have her where she can see the others, but the current space doesn't allow for that. They have 91" long condos, one over the other, so they have plenty of room for zoomies.
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Post by jolovespiggies on Jan 28, 2015 18:49:23 GMT
I love seeing them do their zoomies, ours do it quite often considering they are grown up piggies and it is a delight to behold.
Hugs JO xx
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Post by 3piggles on Jan 28, 2015 20:43:33 GMT
The more space they have, and the more things they have to do, the more they do. I miss Morty doing his zoomies from one loft to the other. These condos aren't as conducive to zoomies, but Momo still manages to do it at least once a day
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Post by jolovespiggies on Jan 29, 2015 17:56:06 GMT
We call it popcorning here love but either way, it is adorable.
Hugs JO xx
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Post by 3piggles on Jan 29, 2015 20:28:26 GMT
Morty and Mia haven't done zoomies or popcorns, for a while. I did catch Mia popcorning about a month ago, and Morty does an occasional one, but no zoomies. Momo is my active girl, zoomies and popcorning, but not for a good week now. I think storm gloom and a general lack of sunlight, have them in semi hibernation. They come out of hibernation really quickly, if they think there are treats coming their way
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Post by jolovespiggies on Jan 30, 2015 18:13:13 GMT
Mine sometimes do it from all four feet all to all four feet in the air and sometimes accompanied by a squeak. It is delightful.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by 3piggles on Jan 30, 2015 21:33:01 GMT
Morty and Mia are getting old, so Morty is more of a bum in the air kind of guy, and Mia does small popcorns. Momo is the feisty one who gets air when she popcorns
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