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Post by lovemyboys on Jul 20, 2015 21:44:26 GMT
I need some advice. I have two boys and have been introducing them slowly. Tucker is about 6-8 months. He is a young male. After we got him, we adopted Snoopy. A very sweet, neutered male about 2 years old. Play dates have been ok. I was told to place them in cages side by side to they could see and smell one another. Each time I cleaned the cage to put Tucker into Snoopy's cage and Snoopy into Tucker. The rescue told me this. As far as play dates, I used a neutral room neither had been in. Got the veggies and let them go. Sniffing, trying to decide who was boss would follow. I would get nervous if it got too rough. I was told I needed to back off and let them work it out. So today I tried a playdate in a large room with the boys today and it did not go well at all. They charged each other with fur up. I tossed a towel and was able to separate them. No one is hurt thankfully. At this point am I correct in saying that is it for them? I honestly do not wan to risk that again. There was no blood shed, but in my heart I feel there would have been.
Second, they have lived as next door neighbors peacefully. They would sleep closest to one another as they could get. Tucker would yell if Snoopy was removed. I felt we were on track until Tucker entered the puberty stage. Today he would not stop chewing the bars closest to Snoopy following being together. Is his behavior due to the stress of the incident? Have I now ruined even the chance of them living as friendly neighbors now? They are apart and settled now. This is new for me and I want to make sure I proceed carefully and in the correct way. Thank you. Feeling defeated
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Post by bazookagoof on Jul 20, 2015 23:58:01 GMT
Lovemyboys, welcome to the board! I'm actually going through a very similar situation, with two males in separate cages and putting them together for play time. So far, it may just take time. I've had them for about three weeks and very slowly, they're getting accustomed to each other. Please be patient, things can still work out. Also, the staff and regulars here can probably advise you much better than I can, since I'm still learning the ropes. (But look into possibly giving them a "buddy bath" to help them bond.)
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Post by Bean on Jul 21, 2015 7:38:08 GMT
Welcome to Wheekers! Sorry your intros have taken a downward turn, and that it's also turned them from peaceful neighbours into bar chewers. Ending a session with them being stressed does tend to heighten emotions a bit between them - although of course, if you were genuinely worried for their safety, that's what needed to be done. Hopefully if you did choose to keep them living side by side, this phase would pass and they'd go back to being happy neighbours. This is a great page on introductions and lists the sorts of behaviours which should cause concern and those which mean you should separate. There is some degree of having to ride it out with introductions - things do get frantic and letting them work through it to some degree can bring peace a bit quicker than frequent separations. I can totally understand your reluctance to have another try, but at the same time, from what you've described, I don't feel that the chances of them living happily together are impossible - it'll just take time and patience to find out. If you did something different on your last session (was it a bigger room than usual?), maybe return to what you did before. You never know what will set them off, so just follow their lead as to what helps them have a smooth playdate. It sounds like you're doing a great job, and most of us have been there with introductions and know how tough it can be, but also that what seems like an impossible situation can sometimes turn to peace really quickly when something just clicks with them and they no longer feel they have to prove anything to each other. Bathing them together is a good idea, and if you can, letting them have their next session on the grass might help - they're often too busy chomping grass to bother to wind each other up! A towel is a good distraction if you need to separate, but I find a dustpan is the great way to separate without risk to fingers! Keep us posted with what you decide to do next and good luck if you give it another try.
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Post by 3piggles on Jul 21, 2015 19:42:37 GMT
Hello and welcome Since the bar chewing has started, and the last meeting didn't go as well as hoped, I would suggest moving the cages away from each other for a while. If you can move one to the opposite side of the room for a few days, so Tucker can't see and smell him. I think that will stop the chewing. It also gives you a chance to move the cages back together at a later date, once the chewing has stopped, and let them start again. I agree with Bean about keeping the neutral space the same, at least until they have bonded and are together in one cage. Do you have a big cage for them, should they bond? Boars need a lot of space. It's also good to have places for them to get away from each other, such as a loft. Good luck with the intros
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Post by lovemyboys on Jul 22, 2015 1:15:34 GMT
Thank you everyone, I feel so much better. As far as the cage I am glad you asked. They each have a Midwest guinea pig cage.mit can be combined to make one large cage. Am I ok with that or am I still too small? I would hate to have a set back after all of this. We were in a different room the last time so that may have made a difference. Thank you for the page on introductions it was so helpful. I love the bath idea and plan to try that the next time. Thank you for the help and warm welcome., Bazooka I hope we both have good news soon.
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Post by lovemyboys on Jul 22, 2015 1:15:45 GMT
Thank you everyone, I feel so much better. As far as the cage I am glad you asked. They each have a Midwest guinea pig cage.mit can be combined to make one large cage. Am I ok with that or am I still too small? I would hate to have a set back after all of this. We were in a different room the last time so that may have made a difference. Thank you for the page on introductions it was so helpful. I love the bath idea and plan to try that the next time. Thank you for the help and warm welcome., Bazooka I hope we both have good news soon.
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Post by bazookagoof on Jul 22, 2015 1:46:30 GMT
Thank you for the help and warm welcome., Bazooka I hope we both have good news soon. I was going to post this in another thread, but since it's relevant I'll put it here- I think "slow and steady" is what wins this race. Very gradually, my two boys are warming up to each other. Usually they start chattering at each other whenever they encounter each other in the yard, but now Oscar doesn't chatter... ...he tries to nuzzle up to Deo. Deo chatters, and opens his mouth (he looks like he's slack-jawed with astonishment) and the tensions seem to subside. Then they both continue to munch away on grass. We've had Deo for about three weeks, so progress is being made! (Returning Deo to the shelter was not an option for me) Just give it time, and I think things will settle down. (Next update will be in its proper thread)
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Post by jolovespiggies on Jul 22, 2015 17:54:51 GMT
What an adorable photo love, it looks like a spontaneous kiss, it is gorgeous.
Hugs JO xx
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Post by 3piggles on Jul 22, 2015 21:15:41 GMT
Awwwww
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Post by lovemyboys on Aug 13, 2015 2:01:34 GMT
It has been a few weeks so I wanted to give everyone an update. The boys are now living apart and much happier. Tucker went for Snoopy and it terrified me. Following that, the cages could not be near one another. Tucker bit bars, chattered and rumble strutted non stop. We did feel bad for Snoopy though. He came to us as a rescue who was depressed because his female mate had passed. He is neutered. We were able to get a very sweet girl and they are doing great. They have had two play dates. The last one tonight lasting almost three hours. I hope to put them together this weekend if things continue well. Tucker, who we love dearly Does not want anyone near him. We plan to love on him, but it Appears he is happiest living on his own.
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Post by jolovespiggies on Aug 13, 2015 18:46:59 GMT
I am glad things are working out love, some piggies are just like that as are some people, they prefer their own company.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by 3piggles on Aug 13, 2015 20:13:11 GMT
That's sounds excellent. I'm glad Snoopy has a sow friend to keep him company. It's also not that unusual for pigs to not want a partner, though I think Tucker would do well with a sow friend of his own. It's extremely rare for a male not to enjoy the company of a female. I'm not at all sure about the rescue people, but if they allow it, have a meet and greet at the rescue. Bring Tucker, have them provide a pen or secure place where you can interact with them and toss a towel on them if they start fighting, then have the rescue try different sows with him, and see if he and one of the ladies really hit it off. When I got Morty a couple of sow friends, I took him to the sow room, held him while he talked to ladies through the cage bars, and picked the two who were most attentive to him, and him to them. A pen was set up, Morty and the girls were put in the pen. They hit it off really quickly, and we adopted them. They rode home in the carrier with Morty. We had the cage prepared, all cleaned, so in they went. Changing locations can be stressful to pigs, with all the new smells, sights, sounds. That's why a 21-day quarantine is advised for all new pigs, to keep them away from the existing pigs until you're sure they aren't sick of have mites. That's the opposite of putting them in cages next to each other, so I'm very surprised the rescue suggested that. The rescue may check the pigs over very carefully, and keep them out of adoption until they are well, but that doesn't preclude the stress causing mites, which is contagious. Also, play dates are intros started, successful, then aborted and redone later. If the intros go well, the pigs go into the cleaned and upgraded cage together, and on to the next phase of their intros. If that goes well, they stay together. Since pigs are very territorial, and need to establish dominance and rules, once they are managing that well, it shouldn't be undone, and started over again. That may be what got to Tucker, too many intros and almost intros. That's why I do think, once he's had a chance to be by himself for a bit, he will welcome a sow friend. He will need to be neutered, but I've found it worth while. They get to have a sow friend, and a good life He will need 4-8 weeks (I do four, some do six, others do eight) before his reproductive system is clear of all sperm. Then he'll be ready to date some ladies
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Post by lovemyboys on Aug 15, 2015 20:52:41 GMT
I appreciate that feedback. I think the rescue we got Snoopy from would help me with that. She thinks Tucker's attitude is just an adolescent stage. I plan to give him a little time to work that out and do what you suggest. I do hate the idea of him being alone. I will either have to neuter him or try to match him with an already spayed female. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
In the meantime, I have 48 x 48 inch cage coming Wednesday. We currently have a Midwest cage with a divider foe Snoopy and Sally. I am worried it is too small to be successful. I see how happy they are playing in their playpen. I made that with the material many of you use to make the C&C cages. I will give you pictures once they are together. Also, Tucker is in the room with them. He can talk to them, but is far enough away that the cage bar biting has stopped.
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Post by 3piggles on Aug 17, 2015 12:07:30 GMT
Yes, one Midwest cage is too small to be divided. With the play pen, a full Midwest cage would be okay as a living area, especially for a bonded boar/sow couple. For two boys, it's too small unless they really get along exceptionally well. The play pen sounds great, as it's up to the pigs how much space they enjoy, and from what you've said, they enjoy the playpen. I have had some huge cages, and found pigs will use all the available space they are given, so you could give them the whole room, and they'd use it Our first boys had play time in the 14x24 living room at our last house, and it was like a wonderland of places to play, hide, jump out at each other, and run laps. The poor dog would lie in the middle of the room, so he didn't get trampled. The boys ran laps around the perimeter We finally built them a C&C cage they could do zoomies in, so we could preserve the wires in the living room Did I mention that piggies love to chew on wires and furniture? So yes, give them space to run and play, things to do in and out of the cage, and they will be happy piggies
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