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Post by jolovespiggies on Sept 24, 2015 18:56:32 GMT
Yes you are right Piggles love, each age comes with its pros and cons.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by bazookagoof on Sept 25, 2015 2:49:00 GMT
I also think having such great availability to the Internet has hurt the local libraries. I used to do all my research in libraries. Now I just google what I want to know, get it all in one long list, and I'm all set. Back in 1996 I was working for a video company where the boss wanted to do a documentary on baseball announcer Harry Caray, and he told me to go research Caray's life on the internet. While I was looking around, I found three separate sites listed three different dates for the man's birthdate. It was at this point that I realized that anyone could post anything on the internet, and fact-checking didn't seem to be the order of the day. Nowadays it's probably better, but I have a tendency to believe in the power of libraries, since it's a good idea to quote one's sources.
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Post by christine on Sept 25, 2015 4:45:18 GMT
You are right about inaccuracies on the internet Bazookagoof. I find that I'm quite often seeing errors in mainstream news articles too - basic typing and grammatical errors on sites like CNN and the New York Times etc as well as factual errors and sloppy research on local news sites. Then I realize that maybe I am too picky and that I'm turning into my gradfather who was a total stickler for language. The internet has made so much information available to us so quickly but accuracy does seem to be somewhat fluid. There's a lot to be said for libraries and for having access to reliable information.
I also find that I like the feeling of a real book. I have a e-reader and an ipad and a Blackberry, but I like reading printed books and smellng the scent of the ink and feeling the weight of the paper. I particularly find it nicer for bedtime reading rather than having the lighting of electronic devices. I feel like I absorb information better from a book rather than from electronics.
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Post by butterfly88 on Sept 25, 2015 11:51:49 GMT
I'm surprised there are so many error on news websites.
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Post by 3piggles on Sept 26, 2015 20:23:29 GMT
I'm like your grandfather, Christine I was raised listening to "There's a right way to say, so say it right!" Annoyed me no end at the time, and now I notice every single mistake. They are numerous, to say the least. And as you said, the errors are in some of the best periodicals, which is sad. They set the standard for so many years. I'm a retired newspaper reporter, and we used the style book published by the NYT. It was THE standard for us. I also like a real book, but my eye site isn't want it used to be, so being about to enlarge the print a lot is nice for me. It doesn't replace snuggling in with a good book, and I hope it never does. I'd like to think that 100 years from now, kids will still know what books are.
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Post by bazookagoof on Sept 28, 2015 2:35:17 GMT
On a related note, it doesn't bother me if there are typos on the internet in what I would call casual conversations (threads like this, for example) but occasionally I do some proofreading for a friend who runs a news/blog website and I've stressed to him that correct spelling, grammar and punctuation are a must in that situation. (If someone's using their phone for internet usage and the ol' autocorrect kicks in, that's forgivable in my book.)
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Post by Bean on Sept 28, 2015 9:17:40 GMT
Same here, I don't give a hoot about informal conversations - that's about getting your point/ personality across. But spotting grammatical errors or typos in formal documents or publications really irks me!
It's very foggy here today - awful visibility and got back with wet hair!
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Post by jolovespiggies on Sept 28, 2015 17:19:10 GMT
I agree Bean and Bazookagoof love, I like correctness in certain circumstances.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by 3piggles on Sept 29, 2015 19:42:40 GMT
I think there are different standards for casual conversation, and for printed facts. I use abbreviations and shortcuts when I post on Facebook. This morning, reading a post on a news site, the woman being quoted sounded like a complete idiot. Then we saw the interview on TV, she was saying the words, and she didn't say what was posted, at all. The person who wrote the new blurb totally screwed up her words. It's was awful! I haven't checked, but I really hope someone caught the mistakes, and corrected them!
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Post by jolovespiggies on Sept 29, 2015 20:38:38 GMT
Yes I do too but I was brought up to be correct in every way and when I think back it did make my childhood a less than happy one in many ways. I had to speak a certain way, watch my grammar and I was taught table manners from the minute I could use a knife and fork, a napkin is not a serviette but a napkin, things like that. My parents used to boast that they could take me anywhere and everywhere and usually they did, but I felt they were too strict.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by Bean on Sept 30, 2015 9:32:37 GMT
It's a shame - good manners should be about making things go smoothly and making people feel happy and appreciated, they shouldn't be oppressive.
Our kids know that at one set of grandparents, a higher standard of table manners is required than at the others, as it is at posher restaurants. They can do it and adapt, but when there's no demand for it, they relax a bit more on that side of things.
My husband thinks I'm sloppy because at home I often cut up all my food at the start of a meal so I can eat with just my fork (apparently that's the American way, you sloppy old beasts!). I don't think it actually bothered him until the kids started doing it too, but he can hardly correct them when I'm setting such a bad example haha!
3piggles - the poor woman if she spoke sense but was made to sound like a gibbering idiot!
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Post by jolovespiggies on Sept 30, 2015 18:43:48 GMT
That is true Bean love. My mother's side of the family were lovely warm people from the Midlands whereas my father's family were "posh," well to do and less tolerant so I can relate to that completely. Really Bean, setting such a bad example LOL!!
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by 3piggles on Sept 30, 2015 21:15:31 GMT
My mother came from a very judgmental family, and she liked to think of herself as posh, but they were carpenters and store keepers. Good people. No reason to be ashamed of them. She put on airs my whole life, and wanted us to be the same way. I used to dress to go food shopping, as that was the way she did it. I think that was more a 40s and 50s thing, and with the 60s funky clothing movement, some people felt threatened enough to cling desperately to there old ways. My mother had the tea/coffee set. I make a pot of coffee and serve it in mugs, not fine china. Times are changing, and I'm hoping plain old good manners take over where all that snootiness used to be.
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Post by jolovespiggies on Oct 2, 2015 18:44:15 GMT
You are so right Piggles love, it was always china cups in our house too and god help you if you helped yourself to a second biscuit at tea without being offered! Yes, I hope good old fashioned manners prevail, they are a different thing to being snooty I agree.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by Bean on Oct 3, 2015 8:46:45 GMT
Something which I've seen cause disagreements in relation to manners is over some people declaring their house a 'no outdoor hoes' zone - you have to take off your shoes when you come in because they don't want all the dirt from outside going over their floors.
We leave our shoes on indoors, although I often get kids to take theirs off as they're more likely to have trampled in something unpleasant! I totally respect why some people decide that they want their floors to be cleaner though (especially if I ever shampoo the carpets), and don't mind taking them off at other people's houses.
But I know some people who hate taking their shoes off and say it makes them feel really uncomfortable - they feel it's bad manners for someone to insist on them taking them off, whereas the person whose house it is feels it's bad manners if they ignore their request to take the off.
I think if it's your house, it's your rules really (not that I have too many myself, but I respect that other people have standards!). If someone doesn't like your rules, they don't have to come.
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Post by 3piggles on Oct 3, 2015 16:56:10 GMT
I knew a woman who had white, yes white, carpeting installed in her house. No shoes past the lino kitchen floor. Even the dog wasn't allowed to be with the rest of the family on the carpeting, and absolutely no food or beverages. I didn't know them well enough, but it seemed as if the white-carpeted living room was for guests only, and the family never used it. Not even a TV in the room, so I'm thinking family room elsewhere. While I think it's ridiculous to have white carpeting, it was her house and her choice. We all removed our shoes. Now that I can no longer keep up with the dirt, I have restricted the number and type of animals I have to clean up after, but still haven't gone as far as banning shoes. I can't remove my shoes easily, so I really can't ask anyone else to. It's also normal to some cultures, such as the Japanese, to remove all shoes at the door, so I really think it's the homeowners call, for whatever the reasons.
Jo, I totally agree about table manners, and manners in general, but I also think manners have changed a lot since we were kids. There are some set manners, as far as I'm concerned. Don't talk with food in your mouth, don't interrupt other people's conversations, ask for foods to be passed to you instead of reaching across someone else's plate, etc. But we don't do teas anymore, and family-style dining with all the food on the table in bowls or platters is more the norm than having to be served by a specific person. If I put a plate of sandwiches or sweets on the table, no one needs to ask for seconds. I don't think letting go of some of the old manners is bad, but I don't like the number of kids I see who have no table manners at all.
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Post by jolovespiggies on Oct 3, 2015 19:54:22 GMT
I have been to houses like that Bean love and it is annoying and yes, it does make you feel uncomfortable. I remember going to a party when I was 8 and we all had to take our shoes off. It didn't matter so much then but I have never forgotten it. Whoa, white carpets, was that lady real? No food at all and no beverages Piggles hun, so you couldn't watch the tv and have a cup of coffee?
It is true Piggles love, I think things have changed a lot since we were children and afternoon has gone too. That is why I like going to tea shops and having a proper tea because it is the only place you can get them. Not that I have been for ages but I am working on it. I agree with all the manners you mention, they are exactly some the ones I have been taught but no table manners at all is disgusting.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by 3piggles on Oct 4, 2015 21:01:17 GMT
Bean, I forgot to respond to the food cutting issue. No, Americans don't cut up all the meat at the beginning of the meal, unless they are cutting it for a child who can't cut it, or, like you and me, so we don't have to keep changing hands. I started doing that to mix the meat in with the salad or veggies, and it became habit. I don't do it in restaurants Jo, I'm glad some of those restrictions have been removed, as they came from the children are seen but not heard era, and that's long gone. It also came from an era when children ate separately from parents, had a nanny to care for them while the parents ate a formal meal in a formal dining room. I prefer open living areas, where the dining, living and kitchen are all in one open area. I really don't like formal dining rooms, and ours were always used as study and storage spaces. We have several plastic cups with attached straws for our granddaughter to use, and frankly, I drop things as much as she does, so china probably isn't a great idea for me, either. The days when the upper crust had to prove it with formalities is gone, and I like a lot of that better. It's still no excuse for no table manners, that's for sure. I love to go to tea houses for a proper tea. They're getting hard to find, and since hubby isn't interested, I haven't been in decades.
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Post by Bean on Oct 5, 2015 8:41:55 GMT
I've no idea about if either are more common in either country now, but there are quite a few references to it being a US style of eating to do all the cutting first and then switch to just using a fork - it's actually called 'American style'. Also that some people constantly switch during a meal - cut something up then move the fork to the right hand to shovel it in, before swapping it back to the left hand and picking the knife up. Apparently in Europe it's very rare for people to not just hold their knife and fork in the right hands throughout their meal - which is called 'Continental style' or 'European style'. The fork is always pointing down in that way too, so eating peas takes blooming ages and can be very frustrating for children!
There are some fun theories on how it evolved although none have much support - they relate to a lack of knives in the Colonial era (so people cut up and passed on while they got on with eating) or a a way of people distinguishing themselves from the others (copied by people who wanted to declare allegiance).
I can be pretty clumsy in the kitchen too - I'm the best at breaking bowls in our house (I knocked a whole stack off a shelf at once - there was only one survivor), my husband's good at plates although there's usually a mug with a bit of tea involved in the incident for maximum messiness, even if the mug stays intact.
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Post by shades on Oct 5, 2015 14:57:19 GMT
I know it's October but I'm just catching up...
Re taking your shoes off at the door, that's the norm in China and other Asian countries. You'd be offered slippers on entering. The only time you'd not do it would be if your host said it's OK to keep them on. If your job involved visiting people's homes, it's most likely you'd carry plastic shoe covers.
Research has shown that wearing shoes into the houses brings in all kinds of nasty parasites, heavy metals and pesticides. These can pose a risk to your health, as well as to the health of your children and pets.
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