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Post by 3piggles on Dec 5, 2016 16:26:30 GMT
There are two schools of thought on the dividers. One is that once you've introduced them and put them together in one cage, leave them alone. If you divide the cage, you should do the intros all over again, in a neutral place, leaving some time with them back in separate cages. Dividing only makes the dominant pig more intent on getting to the less dominant pig, so can make that condition much worse. I know there are people who separate the pigs whenever they're not going to be around to supervise them, but I'm of the school that thinks once the pigs are together, they should either stay together or stay separate. If the dominance is worse after a separation, separate them completely for a week, and redo the intros the next weekend. It can be a long and sometimes painful to watch process for some pigs to establish their dominance. Constantly stopping that process sets it back quite a bit.
One of both of the girls may also be in heat, which will make the intro process that much rougher and louder. My girls get along great, until they are in heat, and then it's battle central in Pigloo City, with Noodles picking on Oodles endlessly, and nothing Oodles does or says to placate her works. Once that passes, they may settle down.
If you have the space, set up two feeding stations(hay, water bottle, pellets) at opposite ends of the cage. That way the dominant pig can't block both feeding stations at the same time. It's cool to watch the dominant pig running from end to end trying to be in both places at once. It gets old quickly, and the dominant pig usually gives up trying to control everything.
Also, if you can add lofts at each end of the cage, you create extra living area, the food and hay can be on the loft, sleeping space under the loft, so no need for pigloos. That opens up more space in the middle of the cage. If the loft is only 4-6 inches high, there's no need for a ramp taking more space out of the middle, living area.
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Post by matty86 on Dec 5, 2016 17:31:26 GMT
Sorry I don't think I've been describing it correctly. It's not a full divider that's up, but the cage came with "divider" with a ramp so both sides connect. When we set up the cage we put that divider in to separate what I guess people call the kitchen area. Their food and water is on the smaller side. I'm going to remove that wall and leave it all open, and maybe I'll set up a half of a shoe box in a corner with some bedding and put their pellets and hay in that section.
I did put a second food bowl on the larger side of the cage and it helps a bit. I have a hanging hay feeder with room for food at it's base. I'm thinking of just using that for hay only and putting back the two small round bowls at each end all on the "back" wall of the cage. I'll put a picture up tonight once I rearrange. I think that will give them more room to eat but still have their space, and more room in the middle for exercise. We just need to make it work for a few months, when our lease is up and we move I'll get a real c&c cage set up for them, as the cage now is about the minimum recommendation for two pigs.
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Post by 3piggles on Dec 5, 2016 18:00:35 GMT
Ah, sounds like a Midwest cage. If I didn't make my own cages, those would be my choice. I love that they can be expanded, daisy chained, around corners, etc. Even putting in a cardboard box they can jump up on or sleep in works fine. It's just to give them the most possible choices for use of the space. The more they can do in the space, the more it keeps their interest, and the less they bug each other.
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Post by matty86 on Dec 6, 2016 13:41:34 GMT
I took out that wall last night and they seem to be doing better. I put a hanging hay feeder and water bottle in the middle on the back wall of the cage, and pellet bowls one at each end along with a hut at each end. As was expected Oreo still followed Gretel from one end to the other but a bit but she seemed to get tired of it! I also saw Gretel do some popcorning which hadn't happened nearly as much since Oreo moved in with her, so that made me happy!!! I think Oreo even tried to popcorn, which I hadn't seen her do before!
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Whimsy
Bronze Member
Posts: 400
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Post by Whimsy on Dec 6, 2016 14:34:10 GMT
Aww, popcorning is a great sign. I think they'll be besties soon :-)
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Post by Bean on Dec 6, 2016 18:12:48 GMT
It's all sounding good to me. Popcorning is the best! When you have a pig who hasn't done it before, usually because they've been on their own, then it's even more special!
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Post by 3piggles on Dec 6, 2016 20:47:23 GMT
Guinea pigs will use as much space as you give them, plus they love changes to the cage that they can explore. If they like the changes, even better, so lots of reasons to popcorn I'm glad they like the changes
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Post by jolovespiggies on Dec 7, 2016 9:40:18 GMT
This is great news love, I am so glad to hear it.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by matty86 on Dec 11, 2016 19:41:14 GMT
The girls are friends! I just did a full cage clean and put new fleece in. Right after I put them in and gave them some lettuce and peppers I went to take out the trash bag from cleaning and I came back and saw a small white puddle. After a quick google search it sounds like maybe that was from too much calcium in their urine? It was right after they ate some romaine... it doesn't sound like I have to be worried about it, but what are your thoughts? Thanks!
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Post by 3piggles on Dec 11, 2016 20:27:51 GMT
That's great about the girls being friends Don't be surprised if they appear to have some fallings out once in a while. When they are in heat, they can really get on each others nerves. When I had free range pigs, my boar used to move out of the cage to the feeding station in the room, just to get away from the ladies Calcium crystals look like a pile of salt crystals. It can be a very thin coating on the fleece, or an actual pile. It's a sign that they're getting too much calcium for their systems to process, so the extra is being expelled in the urine. If it's just a milky substance, it can be from what they've eaten. Sounds as if your girls are doing really well
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Post by jolovespiggies on Dec 12, 2016 9:01:06 GMT
Most ladies fall out from time to time hunny but it doesn't mean we don't love each other lol!! Hugs Jo xx
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Post by Bean on Dec 12, 2016 10:18:16 GMT
Glad they are good friends, that's great! Sounds like they have a great bond, strong enough to wrok through and minor niggles in the future.
I'd not worry about a bit of milky wee either - sometimes it can look like that. As 3piggles said, it's the residue that indicates a problem.
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Post by matty86 on Dec 29, 2016 15:08:03 GMT
So after about a month and a half, we've realized a few things... I'm very allergic to the hay, and my gf is allergic to the Guinea Pigs. Really bummed out and not sure what we'll do. I wear gloves when I handle the hay, but even just being in the room near the cage for long sets me off sneezing, and my gf can barely touch them without having a reaction.
I want to keep the girls but I'm not sure what we'll do. I'm very afraid of trying to re-home them and them not finding a safe and happy place for them.
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Post by jolovespiggies on Dec 30, 2016 11:01:58 GMT
I am so sorry to hear this hunni, what a blow that must be. Try contacting rescues who take on piggies in circumstances like this, they will ensure they go to a good home. Once again I am very sorry.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by 3piggles on Dec 30, 2016 21:30:31 GMT
Your girlfriend is probably also allergic to the hay. Guinea pigs don't have dander, as other pets do. Their hair and skin are very much like ours. It's doubtful she's any more allergic to the girls than she is to you. The pigs eat the hay, then pee, and the chemical composition of the hay in the urine seems to be what really causes the allergies. That said, there are some things you can try. First, change the type of hay you are using. You may need to try a few different types, but as long as they have enough hay going in one end to push their digested food out the other end, they should be fine. They don't have to have Western Timothy hay, which seems to bother a lot of people. Next, what bedding are you using? If you're not using fleece, I suggest you start using it. It will wick the liquid off the surface, to an absorbent layer underneither. What you use for an absorbent layer under the fleece is up to you. Some people use 100% cotton towels. Other than creating a lot of extra laundry, it does not thing to control or neutralize the urine odor, so can be as bad as not using anything. If you use any kind of screen or netting, I used a very soft fiberglass window screen I get at the hardware store, and put that under the fleece, but you can use any type of window screen as long as the pigs can't get to it. You can use non-skid shelf liner with the holes that let the liquid wick down to the absorbent layer. You can use anything that keeps the loose absorbent layer from sticking all over the underside of the fleece. Then all that stuff falls off all over the house, and in the washing machine. Once you have a layer of something the liquid can pass through, you can put anything from kitty litter to Carefresh under the fleece, as the absorbent layer. Do not use scented kitty litter, or kitty litter with any crystals added to it, as they can be toxic to guinea pigs, and the scent is far too strong for little ladies living close to their bedding surface. Use a clumping clay kitty litters. I used to buy the least expensive one at Target. Just scoop out the clumps daily, and change add more kitty litter as needed. By using a different hay that doesn't have the allergens that bother you, and getting the urine off the bedding surface and trapped in an absorbent layer where it can't bother you, may be all you two need to be able to keep the girls
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Post by Bean on Dec 31, 2016 6:38:12 GMT
Lots of great advice there, 3piggles - hope something in there helps you and your girlfriend, Matty.
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Post by jolovespiggies on Jan 1, 2017 15:17:56 GMT
I do hope you manage to wort something out love so you can keep your babies. Please let us know.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by matty86 on Jan 5, 2017 20:53:39 GMT
So I've been using gloves anytime I do anything in the cage, changes, spot cleaning, adding hay and moving houses around and I've had much less issue. I had been using fleece but switched back to the soft paper bedding (not the wood chips or anything bad for them), mostly due to the cage smelling, we may try fleece again eventually and I'll see if I can get it to work correctly.
We also moved the cage a little further away from the couch where we usually sit because I had been sneezing just from sitting by it.
So far so good, still some sneezing but better than it was! May try some of the other hays as well, but I want to run through the big bag that we already had.
Thanks!!!
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Whimsy
Bronze Member
Posts: 400
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Post by Whimsy on Jan 5, 2017 23:15:31 GMT
It makes me happy to hear how much of an effort you're making to make it work. Lots of people are very quick to get rid of pets because of all kind of reasons. Good for you for trying different things. I hope it works out!! :-)
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Post by jolovespiggies on Jan 6, 2017 9:09:31 GMT
Me too hunni.
Hugs Jo xx
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