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Post by 3piggles on Jun 15, 2016 14:16:02 GMT
Today is the girls Gotcha Day. They came here, to their forever home, one year ago today. Since we rarely ever know when our pigs were born, but do know when they started their lives with us, it's sort of a birthday/anniversary day. So Happy 1st Gotcha Day, Oodles and Noodles
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Post by jolovespiggies on Jun 15, 2016 20:02:49 GMT
Happy Gotcha day girls, I am sure mummy will spoil you rotten. Hugs JO xx
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Post by Bean on Jun 15, 2016 20:06:46 GMT
Oh crikey, is it a year already?! Happy gotcha day to the girls!
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Post by 3piggles on Aug 1, 2016 15:14:58 GMT
We finally built the new Pigloo City. The temp cage was on a folding table that was about 30x72', so it was much deeper than I could manage. I had rubber-backed rugs under a vinyl tablecloth that was clipped to the grids with clothes pins. The new cage is 8'x15", has grids at the ends/corners, but otherwise has Plexiglas. The front panel is the same 4" panel I used in Pigloo City at the last house, but the back panel is much higher. Making sure the super jet pee blasts don't get the back wall. There is water and a bowl of pellets at each end, instead of putting it all at one end. We are going to put legs on the end by the hallway, but we didn't finish getting this built and the old one cleared away until about 9 last night, and we were just too tired to cut the legs to fit. We'll do that, though the cage is quite sturdy just resting on the two shelving units. This version is also only half as deep as the temp cage, so we have the majority of our dining room area back. The slider is right by the cage, so they get plenty of light, without getting too much, and they are still right in the middle of everything that's happening We give the girls a veggie treat, when we sit down to dinner, so they know it's coming, and they line up very quietly and very patiently waiting
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Post by Bean on Aug 2, 2016 9:10:42 GMT
Looks great, lots of space to gather speed and shallow enough for you to manage too. Looks like a great set up and it must be nice to have it sorted with everything else you've had to organise.
At least two of mine would be straight over those sides, but you have better behaved pigs than I do!
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Post by shades on Aug 2, 2016 9:59:30 GMT
3piggles love your cage! Might be tempted to copy your design
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Post by jolovespiggies on Aug 2, 2016 12:30:33 GMT
That is fantastic hunni, I love it.
Hugs Jo xx
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Post by 3piggles on Aug 2, 2016 19:24:09 GMT
Thanks, all My pigs have always been laid back. Except for the time Mia tossed Momo over the side, it hasn't been a problem. They really like that the front panel is the perfect height for them to put their hands on it and wait for treats. They seem happy to stay in the cage. No really a cage, as they could get out, if they wanted to. I'll call it a condo Shades, everything in the cage is prefab. The board is a press board covered with white melamine. It's used for shelving in the US. The Plexiglas and grids are in white U channels used to hold plastic thatched panels under porches. The grids are available by the box, and the Plexiglas is available by the panel. We had cut the front panel years ago. The back Plexiglas panel is as it came. We just had to assemble it all. We will be putting legs on the end, as the board bends slightly, and that can cause the grids to pop out. Other than that, it's done. I found the Carefresh I had packed. I cleaned the cage today, and spread the Carefresh, so the piggies aren't trying to run on slippery melamine. I'll get more next time I go shopping. Since I'm only putting hay over a bed of Carefresh, I don't need any screen or anything else. Much easier to clean.
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Post by Bean on Aug 3, 2016 9:03:55 GMT
Whether it's been C&C or shop bought cages, I've always left the doors open for them to get floortime (they used to spend hours out trundling round but seem happier with shorter bursts of activity now they're a bit older). So they take a low wall as an invitation to go out and explore! Most of them are sensible and look before they jump out or down from something and would possibly be inhibited by not being able to see the ground, but Josh has no sense whatsoever and would happily leap down a few feet thinking he could land well! That boy needs protecting from himself.
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Post by 3piggles on Aug 3, 2016 15:07:16 GMT
Momo was like Josh, and found every possible way to jump out of her upper level cage. We had to remove anything she could get up on to get a good jump. Once she was on the floor of the cage, though, she didn't try to get up and over that Plexiglas panel. I only had the guys in store bought cages for about a year, before we built our first semi-C&C cage. They were always taken out of the cage and returned through the roof, which was either removable or non-existent. After that, I went to roaming cages in a piggy room. That gave them complete access to the room through a tube ramp. The girls followed Zippy out and about, but once Zip was gone, it's as if the girls lost interest. They and Morty loved running around the room, but they wouldn't use the tube ramp. Being in the condo with the carpeted family/piggy room, I couldn't really let them roam. Now that we have lino, I'm hoping to be able to create a run for them in the living room, where they can play. I just have to find all the piggy stuff, which I think is buried in our storage unit! I used to make mazes for them out of waffle block pieces, instead of making the pieces into houses. They loved that, especially if there were treats along the way. Being able to go through the doorways seemed to really please them
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Post by 3piggles on Aug 5, 2016 14:18:23 GMT
We had to separate the girls last night. Luckily, Pigloo City is long enough to make two decent sized cages. We made a grid divider, and put one girl on each side. Noodles has been on Oodles case for a couple of weeks, now. We're not sure why, as they snuggle and cuddle and do so much together most of the time, then Noodles starts bullying Oodles, and Oodles squeals and cries. When it was still going on after midnight last night, we separated them. So far, so good. There's been more chatter and purring than squealing, but there have been a few minor incidents. I don't know if Oodles needs a break, just to regain her composure, or what. No one is getting hurt, it's just been going on too long, and poor Oodles is acting spooked too much of the time. I did a mani/pedi spa day for them yesterday, and they were so good. They didn't even really squirm or try to get away. I got Oodles out of the sink first, and was drying her, when Noodles climbed out and started off across the counter. I was holding Oodles with one hand, and trying to get a towel on Noodles with the other. I ended up with a towel walking across the counter, lol! I did finally manage to scoop up Noodles and her towel, and give both girls some snuggles I thought the buddy bath might help, and it seemed to until last night. I told them, if they don't stop this nonsense, next time they'll get washed with shampoo
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Post by Bean on Aug 6, 2016 7:02:34 GMT
Oh dear, I wonder what made them squabble? All my lady's tiffs have been worst in the early days of their relationship, and although there's been the odd spike (often related to hormones!), things have generally got better over time, not worse.
I suppose if there are any existing dominance issues (even if it's just Noodles wanting to do a warrior cry every now and then) then having their environment changed is likely to exacerbate them. Make the dominant one feel the need to exert their influence again. Hope things calm down and that the occasional time out for Oodles helps her regain her composure!
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Post by 3piggles on Aug 7, 2016 14:09:19 GMT
Sorry if anyone read what was posted here before, but since I've changed the cage set up, it wasn't really relevant any longer. The girls were still at it, having to be separated nightly, and sometimes during the day. No one was getting hurt. The level of squealing just got on our nerves after a while. The main problem seemed to be that Noodles would trap Oodles in a corner, or would take her house, and not let Oodles do what she wanted to do. I removed the pigloos, added and removed the grid houses, put in grid tents, and left them with no houses at all. Everything worked for a while, then failed. The grid houses are two grids bent at 90 degree angles, and held together with Velcro tape. I widened both houses, so each fits across the width of the cage, then put the fleece pads back on them. They are now loft houses, one at each end of the cage. Hopefully, this will work. I also added a lot more hay, so they have a lot of hay to burrown in in the middle of the cage.
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Post by Bean on Aug 8, 2016 8:41:03 GMT
I wonder if the narrowness of the cage exacerbates it in that if one pig is making sport of having a pop at the other, they can't really cross from one side to the other without being noticed? Those crossing points might be adding intensity to interactions.
I was going to suggest some kind of bypass where you have a middle bit that has a tunnel with a bridge over it, but Noodles could still stand sentry and play with her squeaky toy. I hope the extra lofts work - if you have food and water at each end then it will hopefully mean Oodles gets less fretful about needing to pass.
Fingers crossed.
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Post by 3piggles on Aug 8, 2016 14:34:46 GMT
They've gone through these periods before. The cage at the last house was the same as this one, only with the kitchen area sort of separate, because of the legs that held up the upper level of cage, but was the exact same length and width as the current cage. That last cage only had a kitchen at one end. This one has water and pellets at both ends. This session started when the girls were in the temp cage, which was shorter and wider. There were ample options for getting around each other there. I don't know if Oodles starts feeling sorry for herself, and Noodles just plays it up and makes it worse. I've been taking Oodles out for lots of cuddles lately, and she squeals at me for picking her up. I pet and talk to her until she calms down, while Noodles just does her things and lets Oodles have a melt down. Noodles doesn't hurt Oodles. She isn't even really aggressive toward Oodles. It's mostly Oodles interpretation of what Noodles is doing. Before, they were in the basement, and we slept two floors up. Now, they're right outside the bedroom door, right behind or beside us when we're working in the main room, so the annoyance of Oodles super loud squeals starts to build up. I slept really well last night, probably because Vic was still up and working on the printer, so he had to deal with them. He put the divider back in before he went to bed, as they were at it again. I'm going to clean their condo today, get rid of all the Carefresh bedding that might have hormonal spray on it, etc., and see of that makes a difference, but I'm really hoping this will pass, as all the other incidents did. Meanwhile, I get a lot of piggy snuggles It does really get on the nerves after a while, though, so I'm cherishing the 90% of the time that they are getting along
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Post by Bean on Aug 9, 2016 6:42:22 GMT
We had one pig who (during group intros) did the whole hysterical wheeking thing. After making triply sure that she wasn't even being touched, let alone hurt, it became clear the others were enjoying playing their instrument! It only lasted for the intro period though. As much as you can feel reassured that they're okay, it's not a relaxing noise to listen to and I can understand that night-time division is working for you!
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Post by 3piggles on Aug 9, 2016 12:14:48 GMT
The girls were quiet, except for expected wheeks, throughout the day, and night, which was really good. They started in around 6:30 this morning, but Vic was up and walking around, so they were asking for treats, not having melt downs. I explained the territorial aspect to Vic, as he removed the divider one morning, Noodles ran straight for Oodles and started chasing her, so he put the divider back in. Dividing changes the territory. Removing the divider changes the territory. The more we use the divider, the more Noodles feels the need to re-establish her dominance, which is what she was doing. There was always a short session after each cage cleaning, as the bedding and hay were all new, so new smells, and a new need to remind Oodles who was boss. It is annoying, that's for sure, but if we can get through the worst of it and let it calm down on it's own, that's the best way. I also asked him not to yell at them, because Oodles is already stressed, and yelling at her for expressing how stressed she is only makes it worse. I changed the cage bedding and put in the pine pellet horse bedding. I watched the tutorial online, which said to cut the bag open with an X cut, fold back the cut pieces, and water the pellets, which I did. I came back from food shopping, and I had a mountain of pellet granules! It was great! I didn't need them all, so I have a whole bucket of granules ready to use. I put the screen over the pellets for now, as there were some that were whole, so they had sharp edges. No houses in the condo, just the lofts at each end, and enough hay to play in, hide in, sleep in, etc. They can munch hay anywhere, anytime
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Post by 3piggles on Aug 12, 2016 18:04:04 GMT
The latest round of dominance started yesterday evening. The timing seems to have little to do with hormones/in heat cycles, so unless it's a chronic problem, I'm hoping to find a different cause for it. Dominance is most prevalent when the pigs are in heat, and when there is a change in their territory. Weather conditions can also influence how they react to each other and to external situations. We've had a lot of really hot, humid weather, and a lot of dominance from Noodles. The two days we had no dominance problems were two days of very low humidity. I swell when it gets really humid, so maybe the humidity also bothers Noodles? I'm going to keep track of the issues versus the weather, just in case that's a factor. While the new Pigloo City is the same size as the old Pigloo City, the old one had a lot of things to do in it, with pigloos, tubes and cardboard box houses. It also had a separate kitchen area. The new one was just a long, open area. Putting in two pigloos only seemed to make it worse. They did their best when they had a lot of hay, and could tunnel through it and play in it the whole length of the cage. So I've filled the cage with things to do, the whole length. So far, so good. I'll see how it goes. I also didn't use the pigloos, as they are mini territories, and Noodles used them as a way of blocking Oodles from getting around her.
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Post by Bean on Aug 13, 2016 18:00:16 GMT
Those pigloos are good for having lots of escape routes, but I hope chasing Oodles through them doesn't become a sport for Noodles.
If routine hormone spikes have been ruled out then the weather is a good thing to keep an eye on.
What does Oodles do when she's in the cage on her own without Noodles? Does she enjoy the space and get more confident not being restricted, or does she not really know what to do with herself on her own? Maybe she's just a pig who's a bit more sensitive, like my Cadders?!
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Post by 3piggles on Aug 14, 2016 19:25:46 GMT
When it comes to dominance, I think all pigs know leaving the situation isn't the answer. Since territory and dominance go together, any changes in territory can set off another round of dominance. So Oodles and I want to keep them together, and try to get Noodles to stop bullying Oodles. Oodles is a sensitive pig, and Noodles knows how and wants to push all of Oodles buttons.
I've been going over to the cage when the squealing starts, and just talking to them both. I use a lite tone of voice, no yelling or scolding, as it does no good. I'm trying to just defuse the situation long enough for Noodles to loose interest and do something else.
Also, Noodles knows she's the culprit. When I go to the cage, she slinks off as if she's been bad, which I think is so cute. That's another reason why I don't yell or scold. But since I do have to pick them up, even if only to do nails once a month, I try to keep them used to being picked up, by petting them in the cage, and taking them out for snuggles periodically. Mostly, I try to let them live their lives, and keep them entertained.
They have periods when Noodles picks on Oodles, but it hasn't been as bad as it was. I think hormones are/were involved. They may have been the reason why this started up again. I also think once the hormones passed, Noodles just kept at Oodles for some reason or reasons. It's those reasons I'm trying to figure out, so I can work at redirecting Noodles.
We have had an especially hot and humid summer, and even in the house with the whole house a/c, the humidity level is 50% or higher. They have hair whether or not is hot an humid, so I'm sure it's hotter and more humid for them now, than it is when the weather is cooler and dryer. If that turns out to be an issue, I may put a fan where it moves the are around but not directly in the cage. That might help make it just a tad cooler and dryer.
I know I get really irritable when it's really hot and humid, because I'm very uncomfortable. No reason to think it's any different with them. The dogs and cats used to get cranky when it was hot and humid. The bunnies used to dig tunnels and go under where it was cool. So I'm watching. Hopefully, I'll get some answers.
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