New Cage Setup Question

[cocospiggysmommy]

As most of you know we adopted 2 new piggies a few days ago. Well at the same time we put up a C&C cage that is 2x6 and in the middle is a divider, so basically its 2 2x3's put together. On one side we have Piggy and Coco and on the other we have Wiggy and Blake. Now the separator is just 2 metal cubes put together. Coco and Piggy are going crazy to get to the other side. Would it be appropriate to place a solid divider in between the 2 cages? I was told that the way were going to have the cage setup would be best this was they could introduce themselves and still be separate. What is concerning me is the amount of determination by the other 2 to get in there. Is this normal, or should I just let them work it out? They keep on making a deep purring sound is this what you guys refer to as rumbling? When we do pull them out we pull them out separately so they are not mixed up right now. The new piggies are taking to us rather well for all things considering. Well except for the nip my 5yo got when she tried to put her fingers in Blake's face thinking he was gonna lick her. The next words out of her mouth were "I want to take that mean piggy back." Well we had another hour long conversation on why not to put your fingers in their faces.lol But back to the topic. We have already gotten rid of the other cages and just have this one up. So should we put in a solid divider so that they cannot see each other or just let it be?

[Clover]

They might calm down cocospiggysmommy, but going on how my Jake behaves sometimes, he can be persistant. My other male Squeekie would just ignore him as long as Jake wasn't actually having direct contact with his ladies.

You could try making a post at cavy cages forum and see if they can come up with ideas. cavycages.com/forum/index.php

Sadly 4 boys together rarely works out and they'd be much happier with just one male cage mate.

[Josie]

I know a guy with 3 boars living comfortably together.

[Teebers]

I *am* a guy with three boars together!
I also used to have a group of five boarsies all together too, there generally wasn't too much trouble once they were introduced.



Although I am worried, now that you've had that divider in there, and that a 'this is our side, that is yours' mentality has been established, if go ahead and remove it there will very much be a few territorial complexes to work out.

[samnbud]

I suggest the divider. I think that way they wont have to see each other. I have my cages with the younger males on top and the older ones on bottom. They cant see each other this way and they dont have to try and 'get' at each other. Is there ever teeth chattering or a 'stocky' stiff walk to any of the males? When they start getting dominant and territorial I notice my boys will have a stiff walk and they like to bump noses. They never fight. I hear the younger males chuttering a bit and walking in tight circles around each other, but they dont fight and I leave them be. This I have taken it as their way of settling 'top pig' issues.
These are links for gp behavior:
www.diddly-di.fsnet.co.uk/Communication.htm
cavyspirit.com/sociallife.htm

This is an easy link to hear gp sounds:
www.tuppambr.demon.co.uk/gpig.htm

[Clover]

Yours is a great success story Teebers and so nice to hear. I just don't normally hear about groups of boars getting on well together. The ones I've known have had to be split up into pairs, but its great that your boys get on very well. I think personality plays a big role. My Jake has always been very bossy.

[Teebers]

I am sorry Clover! I did not mean to be so brash. (Or maybe I just have more of a tougher stomach for the nasty introduction periods! ;~))

[Clover]

Well I can say on my companionship page that I do know a nice young man who has a group of boars living together

I must say, any signs of too much dominance, I'm there ready to break things up. Sometimes if you can hold out a bit longer, some can sort their differences out can't they. I've witnessed two fights and on both occasions, blood was drawn. Sometimes piggies can make lots of noise, but they arn't being really harmed, just the odd dominant nip. Dosn't sound like that though, some can cry as though they are fighting for their life. I'm like 'oh my baby' Jackie to the rescue lol

[skipperdoo]

I've already posted my feedback on the other thread(s) ... I don't recommend it in your case and stated why. I do have four males currently living together but one is an older male and the others are three young siblings.

[Teebers]

lol Ah, I should not forget that you people are all girls at heart ;~)


Anyway, that's the whole reason for the Dust Pan of Doom thing! You use it to break up fights before they can hurt each other - and you don't give up and separate there! You keep going, fully supervising them for the at least that whole day until they are getting on reasonably well. Because even if they fight initially, given a bit of time they'll calm down. You just have to prevent any damage being done at the start and they'll be okay.

[cocospiggysmommy]

So should I leave it up or take it down? I don't want to cause problems between them and this morning I took the new ones out for veggie and exercise time today and the older one of the two bit me and drew blood. I am not worried about it because I think he thought I had food in my hand and was trying to feed him. But are they this agressive or is it because they are nervous and scared? I have also been spending a few minutes more with Piggy and Coco because I don't want them to think they are being replaced, but they are just moping around their cage.

[Clover]

Very good tips Teebers. You sort of know when they are going to fly at each other. Fur stands up, making them appear larger, swaying and circling, possible chattering that says 'keep away', showing their teeth etc.

Is your older male protective of the little ones Kathy or does he just show he is the alpha male?

Sorry cocospiggysmommy
, I've just seen your reply. Do you have anywhere that they could be introduced on neutral territory?

Like you say, I'm sure he didn't mean to nip you. They are still settling in their new home arn't they, so are bound to be more nervous.

[Teebers]

Yes, when they've got their noses up at each other with their teeth chattering that's when you get the dust pan ready!!

I don't know where skiperdoo's other posts are, so I shall just reply here;
CPM, I would be worried that your 2x6 is slightly smallish for a peaceful ending to such a volatile introductory cocktail. Can you do a 3x6 or such? If it wasn't for that I would be willing to have a go...

That's a bit odd about the biting. Was it an aggressive bite or did it look like he thought you had veggies? It may even have been due to mites but that's a bit of a long shot at this point.

[skipperdoo]

I actually don't go along with what Teebers is suggesting (I've had six sets of males living together). I NEVER let ANY pig fight. Fighting is NEVER good and pigs can and do get injured. Skipperdoo was injured by the cage mate that he had lived with for a while and Pikachu was bitten by a cage mate where everything was fine until the lights went out.

The older male LOVES them. They follow him all over the place. I haven't split them into pairs yet since I'm waiting to see which ones end up together once they hit maturity. They are about two months old now.





AS for the bite, it most likely was not because he thought you were food.

[cocospiggysmommy]

Well Teebers I had just finished giving him some carrots so I don't think that it was him doing it maliciously. As far as a 3x6 I am not sure if we can go that big as it is right now the cage takes up quite a bit of room in my living area. We have built a loft on both sides of the cages so they have 2 stories. But can look at making it a bit bigger if needed to. Also the older of the 2 that we just got(Blake) when I hold him and pet him he nudges at my hand. Is this a sign that he wants more or he wants me to quit? I keep on doing it and he keeps on nudging my hand. But from everything I know about them they were abandoned by their owners and then sent to animal control thats when they called the rescue. I am not sure on how long they were there but these guys are sweet and don't think they would try and hurt us on purpose. And Clover to answer your question I can introduce them during exercise and veggie time thats when I am sitting right there with them. Whens the best time to do this now or wait a few more days? Are there any things I should get concerned with when I do it?

[cocospiggysmommy]

I don't think he thought I was food I am thinking he thought I still had food in my hands. I was in the middle of veggie time when it happened. It wasn't anything hard just a nip that pierced the skin. And after I cleaned it up and put a bandage on it I went back to him and held him and gave him cuddles and stuff and he seemed fine.

[Clover]

He could probably smell the food on your hand and just became overly eager.

Is he nudging you when you stroke his nose/head, often a guinea pig will nudge your hand to say 'I'd like you to stop' .

Maybe as well as making the cage larger, you could try washing everything down and put in new bedding and just remove all traces of piggy scent so it may look like a new home?

Glad the older male love the young ones Kathy.

Teebers isn't allowing his piggies to actually fight, you do learn the warning signs, although sometimes you have to be quick.

[Teebers]

I am not suggesting that I let them fight, skipperdoo!! I said that I instantly break up any fights that occur, thus avoiding any injuries - but I don't separate, I find that any urge to fight at all tends to die off after the first few hours, a little bit of patience and tenacity is all that is required.
Very cute picture though!

A loft is good! Very useful if a pig wants some rest and time alone. A 2x6 with lofts is really almost large enough... it's just a lack of space is something that can really hinder a successful introduction. You'd probably be able to do it but it'd be *that* much a harder and longer process than in a bigger cage.

[cocospiggysmommy]

It is when I pet his head. Now I know what it means I won't do it anymore. When we put up the C&C it was brand new coroplast and new cubes so there wasn't any scents from any other animals. I have also changed the cage 2 times since we got them. I am gonna keep an eye on them for a few more days and work on introducing them over that time.

[Teebers]

Just don't forget how difficult this can be, okay? They'll all be going nuts and you've just got to stick with them and make sure no one hurts anyone else. (And if any fights occur do not try to break it up with your bare hands, you *will* get accidentally bitten! Use a dust pan instead.)