*UPDATE*Aug 23...Potter is a GIRL

[cavyabbyprincess2]

Needing some expert advice with a male piggie that I am piggie sitting for over the summer. I am looking after a male piggie named Potter for a teacher of a first grade class at our local elementary school. I was supose to get two piggies to look after but before the school year ended the other piggie passed away. This left Potter alone. I told my friend the teacher that I would look after Potter until school starts again. I have had Potter since June 12 and he is in his own lil cage in my dining room away from my girls. He is a cute lil guy and we are having fun. On Thursday his human mom the teacher bought a lil friend for him and I am guessing this lil guy is very young. He was named Oreo but I think he looks more like a Squirt. I have tried very hard to get Potter and Squirt to bond and like each other. For 3 days now.

Like I said Potter is a classroom piggy and doesn’t have the luxury of a big cage, I have to go with what he is in now. They are not mine so I have to do what the teacher does. I am worried that lil Squirt and Potter will not bond. I have had them on the kitchen floor running around and they seem to get along. Squirt does a lot of the butt sniffing and rumble strutting. Potter does a lot of the chatting and teeth clicking. Squirt has also showed Potter his teeth several times. Sometimes they are good together but other times it is like Potter is telling Squirt to get away from him. They have lunged at each other and basically cant be together for a long time. I tried tonight to put Squirt in Potters cage for a minute to see what would happen and my worst fear came true. Potter lunged at Squirt and teeth chatted, I also heard a hiss and I am not sure who that was from. Right now they are in separate cages and next to each other.

I am not sure if Potter is nuetured or not. I know he is a boy, I have seen his privates. Squirt is all boy, he has the balls to prove it. I can see them. I am at a loss for words. What can I do to help get them to bond. I have never had boys and I have no idea what happens with them. Please if anyone can help me I would appreciate it. Thank You.

I might have left out some things, I am very sleepy now, but if you have any questions please ask.

Is there a smell that males leave? I can smell a musky smell from Squirt. But not Potter.

[cavyabbyprincess2]

Just wondering if anyone had any ideas? I know Oreo is very young and Potter is not. So this could be delaying the bonding process. I have never had boys so I am at a loss for words.

[doodles]

Hi Cavyabbyprincess2,

I have two males that are bonded, and I definitely did some things wrong, but they bonded anyway, thankfully. (They came from 2 diff. places, came home the same day, were about the same age, luckily they just got on together well, even through the teen months. That's not to say that they don't just get tired of one another, or get in stinky moods sometimes.) So far, I've never had serious fights between them--just behavior that appears to me to be "I need my space" mindedness.

All that being said, I think one point for males, that just could never be overstated is that they need space. I have two males in one cage and four girls in another cage separated by a doorway. The girls are so different than the males. They share all their stuff so much better, as if God just wired it into them to share. The boys just don't share the same way--they are so much more territorial!

Have you mentioned the need for space to the teacher? As far as their being in a classroom, maybe a double or triple decker cage could be made for them without taking up much more floor or table space--this would make observing them so much more interesting and their lives would be much better for more room.

Boys just need space and I don't think there is a happy alternative to that fact. I've given my boys as much space as I can plus they get floor time in a bigger pen than their cage and they still seem to get cabin fever at times. (They do always seem happy to go back to their cage after floor time though.)

The fact that Squirt is younger than Potter might help in that Potter is hopefully more settled down now. (My boys are almost four and have grown into very easy-going older gentlemen now) They were much more flighty in the first year. The fact that there are not two teens together may also work in your favor, as they are so like human teens--full of hormones and squirreliness. (No offense to the teens on this forum )

One last thought, maybe try a buddy bath? I'm sure Yodelpig and 3Piggles will have a lot of good advice to help get them on better terms.

Good Luck to You and the little guys!

[cavyabbyprincess2]

TY Doodles for the advice, I really appreciate it and welcome any advice. They are not mine guys to keep so I hae to do things different. If they were mine they would have a huge cage. But seeing that I am piggy sitting for a teacher and they are her classroom pets I have to go with what she has. Last night they were a bit better. Oreo the younger one who I was gonna name Squirt but some one said that the name squirt is a offensive name and school children might pick on him. Not sure abt that but whatever. Anyways Oreo and Potter got along pretty good for the hour I had them together on the floor, Oreo still insisted on putting his nose up Potter's butt. Potter was not into that. Oreo showed his teeth alot. They lunged at each other and had some tiffs. BUT NO BLOOD. So that was good. They are just two pigs with their own minds. Boys are so hard to bond I think. I am so glad my girls are girls.

[doodles]

Hi Cavyabbyprincess2,

Do you think the teacher would be receptive if you referred her to some really good websites on cavy care that give good info. about cages--where she could read about it for herself? There are some great ones like Cavy Spirit, GuineaLynx, Jackie's Guinea Pigs and others.

Some other things you could do is double up on everything they need & want so that there aren't fights over hay, pellets, treats, water, a hidey house, or things to chew on. My guys do better when there is lots to go around.

Try to put them in a neutral area & clean of either boar's scent also might help--when introducing (even if it's the second or third introduction) them. So that neither can claim ownership of the "turf" right off.

Otherwise I'm not sure what else might help??? If you are a new family/home to them for the summer, they may be a little stressed about the new environment too, which may affect their behavior, maybe try just keeping them separate for a while until they seem adjusted/relaxed and then try another neutral meet & greet.

I have to say, from my own experience, the boys do exert their prowess to one another daily--rumble strutting/motor boating, bum sniffing especially when trying to convince the other guy to move, mounting, complaining/whinning to one another. Yet, whenever I separated them, they always want to be put back together and seem upset at being away from each other. They do depend on each other for companionship & comfort.

Hope things work out--boars can be best buds, it's just a bit more complicated. It can work well sometimes though. Best wishes to you & the little fellas.

Again, I think 3Piggles & YodelPig will have some really helpful advice.

[Bean]

Sorry that the bonding of Potter and Oreo isn't going so well - it can be very upsetting to watch piggy introductions, even when they're just normal rituals of working out who's in charge, but even more so if fighting starts. Have you seen the page on bonding etc on Cavy Spirit? It has a useful list of behaviours that are normal and signs that things are getting too serious. www.cavyspirit.com/sociallife.htm#Introductions

I can only echo the great advice doodles has already given in saying that space seems to be so crucial to boars - if they can create a bit of space for themselves to relax or take time out, they are infinitely more likely to get along. If they can't do that, conflict can just keep popping up over minor events.

Of course it's difficult when it's not your pig, but I'd definitely get a bit of info on how important space is and then make it super easy for her to follow it by doing a bit of research on where she can get a good spacious cage for not much money. Maybe even suggest ways the kids in the class might be able to raise the money for it if she doesn't have the funds to pay for it - by doing some baking it and selling it after school or something? It'd be great for the kids to learn about what they need and be involved in providing it, rather than just seeing them in a small cage and thinking it's okay.

I'm glad relations seem to be improving slightly anyway, and hope that continues. But I do think if the space thing isn't approached, they are far less likely to bond longterm.

Another thing is I would keep them well away from the scent of your girls - if there's one thing that can set boars off squabbling it's sensing there are females about.

[cavyabbyprincess2]

Ick the life and times of Potter and Oreo continue. Now I know why I have girls. These guys are nuts. I have done everything right so far and last night me and my mom built them a new cage and a beautiful one at that. We put them in and let them get the feel of the new cage, New pigaloos new food dish and water bottle. Hay at bothe ends and everything was perfect, then about 4am I was still up making sure they were okay. Then all H*LL broke loose, teeth chatting, sniffing butts, mounting by Oreo and then the fight. OMG I was like WTF!!!!! I didn't think they caused blood, but then I thought okay Potter is going to be held by me, he was squeeking bloody murder and scared. I picked him up and I found blood on my shirt, then the blanket. I was again WTF!!!!! I asked mom to check Oreo and he was okay. It was Potter, he was bleeding on the cheek area near his whiskers. I wiped the blood off and took him to the bathroom so I could see better, I wiped him off and cuddled with him, I think he was bit or scratched. I got the bleeding to stop and he was okay just scared. This was now 5am and we are all exhausted. I put the boys back in their own cages and said okay I must think now. I am at a loss of words. I don't think they can be paired up. Potter is older and Oreo is so young. I am keeping them apart for their own protection. HELP!!!!!!!! No buddy bath now because our HOT WATER HEATER is gone and no hot water until late next week. I am taking cold showers and that is not fun.

[cavyabbyprincess2]

Potter is pitch black and it is hard to see where he got scratched or bit by Oreo on Friday. I feel horrible for what happened. How do I tell the teacher that these two can not be put together in the same cage to live? Do I let her deal with this when school starts? I have tried to get them to bond but it is like pulling teeth. Oreo just wants to be boss. Potter will have no part of that.

I gave Potter one of the girls toys, it is a stuffed flower and Potter loves to lay on this at night. I noticed that when Potter was in his big igloo he moved the flower in front of the opening as to say to Oreo, Keep out lil one. Potter has a gr8 personality. Oreo is just a young and hyper pig.

[doodles]

Sorry it has gone so rough with them. Sounds like they should not be in the same cage for now. Maybe once Oreo matures some maybe it could work for them, but that's hard to predict now. I would tell the teacher that they are not compatible for now & should not be in the same cage. I thought Treen had some great advice to suggest to the teacher that maybe she could make it a class project to come up with a different cage situation--having the students come up with some ideas for fund raisers for a new cage, or get them involved in planning & building a C & C cage together as a class??? It could be made into a lesson about researching & giving proper care to pets/animals--ask the kids to do some research--if they are class pets--why not get the students more involved in the care for the pets? I realize it's not your classroom and they aren't your pets, but I don't think it would be out of line at all to make some suggestions to the teacher especially since you have cared for them and seen first hand some needs that should be met. Maybe explain how much better pets they make and how much better their lives are if they have the right environment.

I hope things quiet down for you all! Hopefully the teacher will be somewhat receptive to receiving some advice for them.

[cavyabbyprincess2]

*UPDATE* I took Potter to the vet today because he was bitten by Oreo when I was trying to bond them. Well turns out that POTTER IS A GIRL! Yikes! This explains alot now. I am going to try to talk with my teacher friend about adoption Potter. Because there is no way she can live with Oreo now. If I can't adopt Potter then the teacher better have two cages for them, I WILL NOT LET HER PUT THEM TOGETHER! Potter is on meds for the abcess that was on his (her) cheek after being bit by Oreo. Poor baby has been through alot. Now I have two babies on meds.

[cavyabbyprincess2]

TY Doodles and Treen for replying to my posts here. I appreciate the help. :-) It is nice to have good friends who can help you in need. Much love to you both.

[jenbonjovi]

You've really had a time of it pigsitting! I got a pig from the SSPCA a few years ago and they said it was a girl so my stepson named her Sarah, took 'her' to the vet who sai 'Sarah's a funny name for a boy'. Luckily we hadn't got him a pal yet or we could have ended up with lots of wee pigs!
I hope Potter feels better soon, she's lucky tohave you. X

[yodelpig]

Have you had a look at this link here to make sure of either piggy's sex or post (clear) pictures of the privates on here?
www.cavyspirit.com/sexing.htm

[Bean]

Blimey, what a development in the saga - hope it isn't too late and Potter has escaped pregnancy. Hope her bite wound heals up nicely too. Good luck working out a plan for dealing with the school situation. I was going to say perhaps the teacxher would consider having Oreo neutered, but it doesn't sound like there's been much love lost between these two so far, so if they're not going to get improved living quarters to potentially calm the waters, expecting harmony might be wishful thinking!