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Post by Alix on Jan 23, 2005 22:11:20 GMT
I noticed recently that Lucy has been deteriorating fast due to old age. She's not even that old, at 6, but in comparison, at 5 Hillary is much healthier and looks like a three year old. I am putting it down to the way her horrible first owners treated her, as she is ageing quicker than I'd hoped. Her eyesight is going - she has to go on the light, not the images, and her smell. Her hearing has also gone down as sometimes she doesn't know I'm there - and I make quite a racket! Which leads me to our next problem. I noticed her breathing irreguarly on one of our hot days about a week ago, but assumed it was heat stress. She also had a clear goo just around her nose. Again, I didn't put anything to it. She returned to normal that night as it got cooler. Today I noticed her breathing harder and more irreguarly, and she had green crusties on her nose. I am allowed to take her to the Vet, but not until tomorrow. I hope its nothing serious, just a cold or something. But yeah, I'll let you guys know how she goes tomorrow. EDIT: Just thought I'd add a pic of her that I took yesterday. Very blurry, but she's being cute in it!
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Post by skipperdoo on Jan 24, 2005 10:36:35 GMT
Everything sounds normal as far as aging goes and it most likely has nothing to do with her prior caretakers since she's past the age when some well-cared for pigs live. Their genes are probably just diferent.
As for the health issue, where does she live and what is she housed on? Any stress lately ... even if it's heat related? Cute photos, BTW.
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Post by Clover on Jan 24, 2005 17:07:20 GMT
Aww all the very best for Lucy at the vets tommorow aL. Its always a worry when their breathing is irreguarly. Is she eating ok and taking an interest in things? I sometimes wonder if Jasmine is older than 4 years old, the previous owners were abit vague about her age. They told me she was 18 months when I brought her home, but they wasn't completly sure because that was her second home. She is supposed to be the same age as Clover but she can act much older. Sometimes she dosn't always hear me call her name either. I'm sorry about Lucy's eyesight going to, like Kathy has said, that can be age related to. I'll keep my fingers crossed for her aL, sending lots of hugs to Lucy
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Post by Alix on Jan 25, 2005 0:13:34 GMT
Thanks for your support guys! I made the reference to Hillary as she is Lucy's daughter, so I expected some form of similarity. The only difference being that Lucy spend a year of her life with someone else, and I have had Hillary from birth. Her breathign is better today, but her nose is still crusty so I'm still taking her to the Vet and hopefully he can give her something to get rid of it. I'll let you know how it goes if I can come online tonight, but otherwise I'll see you tomorrow!
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Post by Alix on Jan 25, 2005 0:18:24 GMT
Oh I forgot ot answer your question, Kathy. She lives outside in a shed that stays open all day. Her cage is bedded with shavings and hay in the Den. She's been inside alot when it's hot, and lives on shavings here too.
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Post by skipperdoo on Jan 25, 2005 5:55:25 GMT
Maybe a differnet type of bedding might be tried although it sounds more like a possible UTI. Is the room damp ... I don't know if it's humid there or not or how often the bedding is changed.
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Post by Alix on Jan 25, 2005 6:42:50 GMT
Hey guys..
Prognosis isn't good. The Vet said that she had a chest infection, but also that she has Congestional Heart Failure which he got from the fact that what I thought was Lucy's weight dropping to a low, round belly, was her losing weight and getting fluid build ups. There is also a fluid build up under her chin, in front of her chest. The Vet said it would be the cause of her hard breathing, as the fluid takes up space in her lungs.
He said the infection can be treated, but the breathing is only going to get worse and it's going to be really hard on her to keep going much longer.
I'm going to have to think about Euthanesia. Poor Lucy, my dear dear little friend. I'm going to set something up and take really special photos of her to frame.
Thanks for your support guys.
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Post by Clover on Jan 25, 2005 7:12:35 GMT
Oh aL I'm so sorry things didn't go well at the vets for Lucy. I remember when my Molly started with breathing problems, my vet gave her steroids which eased her laboured beathing and she had another 4 months with us. But I know Lucy's problems are different because of heart problems to, so I don't know what your vet would say about steroids. I know its such a hard decision because we just want our pets to live as long as possible, but if they are suffering its the kindest thing we can do, to let them go. I'll be thinking of you and Lucy aL
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Post by Alix on Jan 25, 2005 8:03:21 GMT
Thanks Jackie, it means a lot that you're thinking of us both. I don't think the Vet said anything about steroids, and he seemed pretty grim about his prognosis. I don't want her to suffer, but I want her to stay. I'm calling the Vet in a day or so to confirm what we're going to do. I hate to think of it though..
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Post by Clover on Jan 25, 2005 8:29:51 GMT
I know how hard it is for you aL and Lucy knows how much you love and care for her. Sending you both lots of hugs
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Post by Bean on Jan 25, 2005 11:56:04 GMT
Aww I am so very sorry to hear about Lucy, aL. Is she responding well to antibiotics for her chest infection?
If you haven't already, I'd definitely post at GL for advice on the heart issue - I've read about pigs with a lot of fluid around their chest and bodies responding very well to heart medications. Both in terms of quality of life and life expectancy. It's certainly worth investigating anyway. The heat over there will make it harder for her heart to work well at the moment, so it could be that something like that would really help.
Of course you know her best and if she's been going downhill for a while and it's likely due to her heart problems, then you know best what's the right thing for her.
Give her a cuddle from me and I'll be thinking of you both.
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Post by skipperdoo on Jan 25, 2005 16:12:37 GMT
My dad had congestive heart failure. Like you are thinking, I wouldn't go for any heroics and do what is best for her realistically. EDIT: Forgot to add, how did the vet determine that it was heart CHF? Perhaps Lucy has a bad case of pneumonia like Max does. He was incorrectly diagnosed and treated a variety of times by various vets including one who is the House Rabbit Society's vet and is know nationally if not internationally. To determine the heart disease he would need to have an echocardiogram. That cost too much so they gave him lasix which did nothing. All of his four x-rays showed pneumonia although the raidioglist who came in to read the x-rays at first wasn't sure if it was his heart. He was treated with TMS which did not help and he's now on injectable Baytril (given orally) longterm.
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Post by Bean on Jan 25, 2005 18:05:14 GMT
I understood that even with scans etc, guinea pigs heart problems were quite difficult to get a definite diagnosis on. It's more a case of guesswork based on presenting symptoms, with an absolute diagnosis only gained by doing an autopsy.
So if her infection is responding well to antibiotics and she's not in a miserable way, then trying certain things is worth considering as it might not be as hopeless as it sounds.
But as I said before, and others have said too, you know her best aL, so will know when she's had enough.
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Post by Alix on Jan 25, 2005 21:37:14 GMT
Hey guys, thanks for your support. The Vet listenned to her heart, and felt the fluid thingo's and knew. He said that she was unlikely to respond to treatment for heart failure and that it would prbably be stressful and pricy.
This morning her crusty nose has gone, but her breathing is still very labored. I had her lying on my chest last night and this morning and I could feel her whole body pumping her little lungs to breath in short breaths.
The thing that makes it more hopeless to me is that I'm sure the fluid build up has been there for quite some time, or that it started some time ago. I remember last summer my Aunty said to me that she thought there was a lump under her chin, but when I felt it I dismissed it as fat when I knew it felt different. And the fluid build ups in her lower body I assumed was her fat dropping because she was old, and she's had that at least since last summer.
I'll post on GL and see what they say. I don't know how accessible the sort of treatment you are suggesting will be for me, but I'll look into it.
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Post by Merry on Jan 25, 2005 21:41:48 GMT
aL I'm so sorry to hear that Lucy isn't doing well, I know you will do what's best for her. *hugs* It is hard when they get old, having to watch them suffer. Opie has arthritis now and it's getting hard for him to move around. It doesn't seem fair that such little, innocent creatures have to go through so much pain. Just try to take one day at a time and enjoy every minute you can with dear little Lucy.
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Post by Alix on Jan 25, 2005 21:57:39 GMT
Thanks Mezzoo, I hope I can make the right decision.
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Post by Alix on Jan 25, 2005 22:22:41 GMT
Ok, have researched it on Guinea Lynx and the problem is Congestive Heart Failure, of which I have no idea what the difference is. But pretty much the Treatment is what the Vet mentioned Yesterday. Lasix on a high doseage, and then screenings of the heart and kidneys every few months because of the stress on the kidneys. The Vet said that it was unlikely she'd respond to treatment and that at this stage it would be just added stress.
I'll see how she is tomorrow with the antibiotic and make my decision then. I'm not ruling out Treatment, but I just don't want to put her under any more strain, it just seems unfair to put her through it for the sake of me having her for an extra couple of months.
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Post by skipperdoo on Jan 26, 2005 2:40:43 GMT
Just a note .. Max's chest has been filled with fluid and he did repsond to the antibiotic but not to the lasix. Lasix is cheap and I have a huge bottle if you want it. He also was exhibiting the symptoms that you mention and I brought him to be put down only to find out the treatment and diagnosis was totally wrong. With the proper treatment he has bounced back but he's not at 100% and may never be.
The important thing to watch for is her quality of life. Take care ....
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Post by Bean on Jan 26, 2005 9:40:02 GMT
Just remember that vets (just like doctors) don't always get it right and heart problems are difficult to judge without extensive tests. So if you'd thought of giving Lucy another few days to see how she responds before you make any decisions, then having her on the Lasix as well won't do any harm or prolong any suffering as it's time she'd spend with you anyway. From what I've heard some pigs respond pretty quickly to it and as soon as the fluid clears they breathe much easier and lose the fluid build up. So if it's going to help her, it could be apparent within a short space of time. And if she's still the same, you'll know that you gave it a try.
I do agree that if she's having a miserable time, then you need to think of what's kindest for her. And no one can make that call better than you. But if you're unsure what's best right now then I'd get her on the meds as soon as you can just to see if they do any good - you never know. And if they do improve things for her a lot, she'll be happy and you'll not have any worries that you're acting in your own interests as you'll be able to see her happy.
I'm really sorry she's in such a bad way and that you're having to go through this. Just trust your instincts.
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Post by skipperdoo on Jan 27, 2005 4:50:52 GMT
I took Max in the be put down and the vet agreed that if it was in fact heart problems, she would put him down based on his prior treatments and his state (of condition). However, when she found out that it was pneumonia and that the lasix hadn't worked, she said that I had to try a run of Baytril first. So far he's okay and occasionally popcorns a bit.
Like Treen indicated, both the lasix and antibiotics usually will cause an improvement within a few days.
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