Jemima
Bronze Member
Posts: 223
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Post by Jemima on May 28, 2005 2:29:39 GMT
She wanted the incisions from her surgery two weeks ago to heal. The incision line was fine for the first 6 days--it was healing beautifully, but then pus pockets started forming again, and Koko was ripping out stitches, and scratching the area. It was a bloody oozing mess. When I took her to the vet, she cleaned up the area and expressed more pus but didn't want to chance her incision line ripping open (it was a large and extensive surgery). She feels next week it will be adequately healed enough to put in a drain that can be flushed without jeopardizing the entire incision line.
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Post by skipperdoo on May 28, 2005 2:55:26 GMT
Usually an area is left open for some type of drain. Tyler had his entire neck wide open for a month with I flushed and treated it and took him back to the vet to do cleaning. I'm sorry, I might not be too helpful since I'm not able to see or fully able understand what is going on.
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Post by Janet on May 28, 2005 3:14:00 GMT
Oh--does anyone have any experience or knowledge of doxycycline?
I have taken the human form of this medication for a sinus infection that wouldn't go away. I believe it's for the stronger bacterial infections that won't go away. It worked fast!
Lots of piggy prayers on this end!
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Jemima
Bronze Member
Posts: 223
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Post by Jemima on May 28, 2005 12:35:52 GMT
Perhaps when the vet did the surgery she figured she got it all? I really don't know.
I was pretty hopefully the surgery had gotten it all, and perhaps if we'd put her on Baytril from the beginning it wouldn't have recurred so quickly (6 days).
Hopefully on Wednesday it will be properly opened, drained and flushed, and then I'll be able to help clean it.
I'm sorry that after the surgery a drain had not been placed then. At the time I didn't realized it could be done that way. I thought it was either lance/drain/flush or surgery and hopefully it's all removed. This has been a learning process for me, and if I could go back in time two weeks I'd probably request things be done differently (drain, too, and Baytril from the beginning). I have only had guinea pigs for 6 weeks today, and for four weeks I've been dealing with the unexpected pregnant guinea (who looks as if she'll burst any day now--babies are doing cartwheels inside--fun to watch) and then for the last three weeks, we have dealt with Koko's pregnancy, illness, and surgery, all 3 with mites, etc.
It's a lot to have learned in a short time and I'm doing my best. Considering the rural area I live in, that I have a vet who can deal with guineas at all is a bit of a miracle. She may not know everything, but I think she's doing a good job, and she's open to the info that I've been learning.
Thanks all!
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Post by skipperdoo on May 28, 2005 14:15:33 GMT
Sounds like Jasmine and all of her problems ... I only expected a minor head tilt if that. Hang in there!
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Jemima
Bronze Member
Posts: 223
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Post by Jemima on May 30, 2005 0:06:21 GMT
Hi, all--
More questions from the scared-to-death me:
While cleaning her neck tonight blood came out after the pus--that is supposed to be good, right?
But, I also noticed that some of the areas along her incision line and where some of the stitches had been located, looks dark beneath the skin. I am quite worried that this means something, but I am not sure what.
I am already a nervous wreck, and she doesn't go to the vet til Wednesday. She actually looked and behaved better the past two days, and I just can't stand the idea of another downturn.
It may be my overparanoid imagination, but it also appears that the one mass that has redeveloped has also gotten larger.
I really feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.
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Post by Janet on May 30, 2005 1:55:21 GMT
Let's go back to basic first aid:
1)If I remember right, pus is the dead white blood cells that have lost the battle. When you have red blood, you have a strong army still fighting the war against infection. 2)The darkened skin has been exposed to air and it is probably dead as you move closer to the surface. 3)You've got to have swelling with something like this, so the mass may appear larger.
You are amazing and need help. I know Wednesday is far off. Do you have anyone that can help you and give you some rest? Bless you and the little piggy.
Your little one is so lucky to have you as a mom.
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Post by kitty on May 31, 2005 4:06:59 GMT
Piggy- prayers coming your way....
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Post by Janet on May 31, 2005 23:25:02 GMT
Jemima, we haven't heard from you for a couple of days. Is Koko o.k.?
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Jemima
Bronze Member
Posts: 223
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Post by Jemima on Jun 1, 2005 0:40:58 GMT
Sorry--it's been frantic. My college son was only home for a few days, and that hasn't helped matters. Had to take him to the airport today.
Koko is the same, except the large recurring mass did wind up popping to some extent and has been leaking pus. The mid section of her neck is the same as I previously described, except since the abscess popped, there has been some pus oozing from some of those holes. I am suspecting that this new pus is from the popped abscess and hopefully is nothing newly manufactured.
Since I know that Albany, NY (where I was taking my son back to the airport) is a much larger area with hopefully more 'amenities' I was hoping to find someone with the curved tip syringe while I wait for my order to come in. The first vet I called would not even 'sell' me a curved tip syringe if I were not a client. The second vet I called said they had some, and they would sell them to me. When I got there, they GAVE them to me. That was great!
Koko's poops also had been not 'normal' since Wednesday, the day off from antibiotics since the change from Bactrim to Baytril. Even though I've been using probiotics, they still weren't right, so two days ago I started giving her the poop soup, and it seems to have made the difference!! Her poops since yesterday were normal.
I haven't used the curved tip syringe yet and have to admit I am terrified. What if I can't get it right under the skin? I have read the stories of how others have done it, but I am still concerned, since these holes are not official drain holes, although it should work. I can press on one pus pocket, and it may ooze out two or three holes.
Plus, Koko does go back to the vet tomorrow, so hopefully there'll be good news.
Still no babies from Saige yet. Even though the babies are looking like they're auditioning for the WWF, it seems like she'll never give birth. I wish we knew exactly how far along she is. We have had her 45 days, and first noticed her swelling up 4 weeks ago.
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Post by skipperdoo on Jun 1, 2005 2:52:53 GMT
I would wait until you have the vet show you (meaning do it) how and where to flush the area so there will be no questions in your mind. Good luck.
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Post by kingscountry on Jun 1, 2005 2:53:41 GMT
Im so sorry to hear what you and your pig are going through.....Im only new here myself but I have had pigs for near on 7 years and seen a few abcess's in my time...I was also a Vetinary nurse for Equines but an abcess is the same in all animals as is the treatment...
I would say your vet has tryed to remove what they can but unfortunatly if the mass spills or leaks durring the surgery it can contaminate the entire site, which it sounds like it has......
I have always used good old Peroxide to clean wound sites and it works great on hard to shift puss because it reacts with dead skin tissue and semi dissolves it making it easier to wipe away.... Getting blood after the puss is good, it means its starting to heal..but remember theres a huge hole in there that needs to heal from the inside out, meaning dark tissue will apears as fresh tissue pushes the dead stuff away.....dont panic over it its all part of healing....
Im not a big one on giving antibiotics to a cavy at all..I think it interferrs with thier gut florra way to much, but if its a must then a good way to help is by getting fresh poop from your other pig and feeding them to the sicky, it will hold all the good bugs shell need to help fight the bacteria and any damage the antis will do to her gut flora....
As a general rule I dont lance or interfer with an abcess under the chin unless its stopping the pig from eating.....they will naturally burst open and drain and most heal far better than any Ive had lanced or removed and without so much stress to the piggy...
As to her pregnancy....if she hasnt aborted them from all the stress shes been through then your very lucky....Sows can drop a litter early if stress gets to high....The antis shouldnt hurt the babies now shes further gone, they are more an issue in very early pregnancy....
This is only my personal experience with pigs and abcess care......naturaly every case is different.... You and your little girl are in my prayers..goodluck
fee
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Post by Bean on Jun 1, 2005 12:32:06 GMT
Treen--(your website is how I found wheekers in the first place!!) how long did you have to flush, and it was indeed a bacterial infection after just fatty lumps?? Yikes! I am just wondering how long this may go on. Charlie's abscesses only took a couple of weeks, tops, from when the wounds first got infected to them being clean and healed (and she was on antibiotics after the surgery so it doesn't always help to stop infection setting in). Ziggy's dental abscess took longer - definitely a few weeks but I can't remember exactly. That grew so quickly over a big area although it had most likely been loitering for a couple of months beforehand. You're doing a great job - nice work with the poop soup too!
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Post by skipperdoo on Jun 1, 2005 14:51:44 GMT
Thought I posted this but not sure so will try again. It is the current thinking in the US to not use peroxide since it destroys the tissues. Alternatives are diluted Nolvasan or Betadine or a saline solution. What did the vet suggest and how did the visit go today?
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Jemima
Bronze Member
Posts: 223
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Post by Jemima on Jun 1, 2005 20:03:10 GMT
Here goes:
Just got back from the vet. She was shocked at how GOOD Koko's neck looked!! What's remaining of the newer abscess she felt was scar tissue. I told her we got some pus out of it last night, but she didn't think it was anything to be concerned about.
She did find another lump on the side of her neck, though. We don't know if it was there from the beginning, or if it's new.
She said that we should leave her neck alone for now, and only clean it if we see more pus. She also wants Koko on an additional three weeks of Baytril (a total of five weeks) and perhaps for life depending on the outcome of the course of Baytril, which I think depends also on what happens with the other lump in her neck.
She also felt that Koko should remain separated from Saige for the duration of their lives.
She wasn't sure about what happened to Koko's pregnancy, she is not sure if she's simply seeing Koko grow, or the pregnancy grow, but didn't want to stress her any further by doing another ultrasound.
So, first, thanks to everyone for all their help and advice. I doubt we'd even gotten this far without you.
Second, what do you guys think of what she said?? To only get the curved syringe yesterday, and now she's telling me not to do anymore, does that sound ok? She thinks she's healed real well in her neck, and there does not appear to be any pus there at all. (Probably still some in the lower one, but at least it's open) Should she be on another four weeks of Baytril (she's been on for a week).
I want to balance out all the info I get.
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Post by skipperdoo on Jun 1, 2005 20:53:35 GMT
I responded on Pigloo but I would say yes to the antibiotic. Tyler, my rabbit, was on it a month beyond the time that his symptoms disappeared and then it was stopped. The abscess came back again and burst and then he was fine (so far). He also was full of scar tissue but is doing okay now. I've had Max and Izzy and Emmy (guinea pigs) on long-term doses of antibiotics and they were fine with no negative reaction to the drugs. None of them received any probiotics or poop thingytails (the current thinking in the area where I live is that it is not needed).
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Post by SaigeTheSweetie on Jun 3, 2005 0:05:36 GMT
Mom I hope KOKO gets better soon!!!! I hope Saige does okay too!
Saigey Baby Sweetheart girl
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Jemima
Bronze Member
Posts: 223
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Post by Jemima on Jun 3, 2005 3:51:44 GMT
Tonight we were checking on Koko and she was leaking pus. Got to break out my new curved tip syringe and get back to work. (Plus my order of numerous syringes arrived today.) So much for her neck looking good, although I will say that I still believe that it's the abscess down below leaking, and not new pus. The abscess is still getting smaller, and it as well as the other holes do seem intertwined. I'd squirt chlorahexidine into the abscess hole, and it would come out several holes above (we have a couple new holes now that the remaining stitches were removed yesterday.) And if I squirted in one of the several holes above, it would come out several holes above that. We got a lot of pus initiallly, then back to blood and fluids. I wish I could get the abscess hole bigger in the hopes of flushing out some tissue, like the scar tissue, but what do I know.
The lump on the side of her neck does feel a tiny bit bigger. I am wondering if I should just keep flushing out the neck area real good til I think that's done, and then worry about her removing the other lump. Since I am starting from square one with this lump all over again, which do you think would be preferred: surgery or lancing/draining?
Plus we were back to poop soup as her poops were changing back to the tear dropped mushier kind. She does not like it, though. Overall, Koko was one very unhappy piggy tonight. She was very nippy, which she isn't after all she's gone through, and I think she's just plain fed up with all of this.
I feel emotionally/physically drained all over again. It seems there is no end in sight.
I wish I could find a vet I could take her to who would be willing to prescribe chloramphenical along with what we're doing. It seems from a lot of what I've read that's her best shot.
Anyone know someone in NY who prescribes it to guinea pigs?
Thanks again, and I'm sorry to still have these issues. It's so disheartening.
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Jemima
Bronze Member
Posts: 223
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Post by Jemima on Jun 5, 2005 1:36:10 GMT
Here's a picture of before sickies Koko.
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Post by Janet on Jun 5, 2005 5:09:37 GMT
She is just adorable! What beautiful eyes. She is definitely a Koko. We are all pulling for her.
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